ScummVM IRC Log - 29 Jul 2016

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[02:07] <snover> hm. this is a bit scary& the decompiled sources from sci companion for GK1 dont have any utterance of INTRO.AVI or CREDITS.AVI, and yet, scummvm plays them both
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[02:47] <GitHub147> [scummvm] sev- pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vKxha
[02:47] <GitHub147> scummvm/master 0182a8a Eugene Sandulenko: MADS: Fix warning
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[07:09] <GitHub157> [scummvm] sev- closed pull request #793: WAGE: Add save/load code (master...wage) https://git.io/vKABL
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[07:09] <GitHub163> [scummvm] sev- pushed 11 new commits to master: https://git.io/vKpmQ
[07:09] <GitHub163> scummvm/master a5fc17f Alexander Tkachev: WAGE: Add saveGameState() sketch...
[07:09] <GitHub163> scummvm/master fe1f535 Alexander Tkachev: WAGE: Refine WageEngine::saveGame()...
[07:09] <GitHub163> scummvm/master 5d804f3 Alexander Tkachev: WAGE: Refine saveGame()...
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[07:30] -ChanServ:#scummvm- _sev set flags +AOort on Tkachov
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[07:47] <blorente> good morning
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[08:05] <_sev> blorente: hi
[08:06] <_sev> blorente: yes, please rebase your branch on the master tip
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[08:14] <blorente> _sev Great, I'll try. For reference, this I the branch I plan to merge into the PR, if oyu want to take a look at it: https://github.com/blorente/scummvm/tree/move-macgui
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[08:15] <GitHub186> [scummvm] fuzzie opened pull request #795: POSIX: Add $SNAP to search path if available. (master...snap) https://git.io/vKpGu
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[08:15] <_sev> blorente: your commit wording "Intermediate: Will Pick tomorrow" needs to be changed
[08:16] <blorente> _sev, Yes, but I thought I would just squash them all
[08:16] <fuzzie> (still no time, but the Ubuntu people are in town, making sad faces at me in person..)
[08:17] <_sev> blorente: well, squash them, but not all
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[08:17] <_sev> blorente: separate WAGE from GRAPHICS
[08:17] <_sev> fuzzie: just kill them all
[08:17] <_sev> fuzzie: :P
[08:17] <fuzzie> if I could just solve all my problems that way.. :-)
[08:18] <blorente> _sev, will do :)
[08:20] <rootfather> _sev thanks for your answers regarding NEWS
[08:21] <rootfather> don't hesitate to stop me if I'm starting to add too much to it :)
[08:21] <_sev> rootfather: on the contrary. Our recurrent problem was that people forget about it
[08:21] <rootfather> sounds good :)
[08:22] <_sev> rootfather: so close to a release time I was looking through several months of commit logs and adding to the NEWS
[08:22] <_sev> rootfather: so in fact, that is a big help if you take care of it
[08:22] <_sev> (not to mention my usually broken English :) )
[08:23] <rootfather> don't worry, my english is broken too :P
[08:23] <_sev> I think that your Deutchglish is much better than my Rusglish
[08:24] <t0by> Are we having a competition for the worst English? Because I would like to enter.
[08:24] <_sev> many people in Germany have English better than the average people in UK
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[08:25] <_sev> t0by: Fyodar wins
[08:25] <t0by> lol.
[08:25] <rootfather> Might be possible that English grammar is a *slightly* bit closer to German grammar than to Russian or Ukrainian.
[08:26] <t0by> ** English grammar a *slightly* bit to German grammar closer is
[08:26] <_sev> rootfather: that's for sure
[08:26] <_sev> English and German both belong to Germanic family afaik
[08:27] <rootfather> yep
[08:28] <rootfather> most of the nordic languages too
[08:28] <rootfather> excluding Finnish of course which is completely weird and nobody knows where it comes from :D
[08:28] <_sev> though it comes with Estonian and Hungarian O_o
[08:29] <rootfather> I think Finnish and Hungarian both have basically no similarities to any other language spoken in europe
[08:29] <rootfather> not sure about estonian
[08:29] <_sev> Finno-Ugric family of lanugages
[08:30] <_sev> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finno-Ugric_languages
[08:33] <blorente> From experience, German pronunciation is far more similar to English than for us Latin language speakers. That solves many communication issues that a Latin language speaker with simmilar grammar/vocabulary would have. WIth the exception of French on the vocab side, maybe
[08:38] <t0by> man, where is RichieSams.
[08:39] <t0by> little more than a week ago he was right here, slamming me for my ill-fated attempts at an RP pronunciation.
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[08:39] <t0by> Basically this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6qGwmXZtsE
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[09:07] <blorente> _sev I think I fixed the issues you mentioned. I will take a second look to see if I have properly separated it before merging into my master and submitting the pr: https://github.com/blorente/scummvm/tree/move-macgui/
[09:08] <blorente> Nevermind, I found a couple more places to separate
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[09:21] <_sev> kk
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[09:46] <t0by> this blorente is a pretty cool guy. as redditors would have it, "eh churns out patches all day and doesn't afraid of anything".
[09:47] <blorente> t0by: More like "Tries his best to fix his messes, learns by screwing up" xD
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[10:20] <blorente> _sev, Okay, I think I've got it: https://github.com/blorente/scummvm/tree/move-macgui I'll merge with master and submit the pr
[10:20] <_sev> please _do_not_ merge with the master
[10:20] <_sev> rather rebase to the top of the master
[10:20] <blorente> okay
[10:21] <_sev> git fetch upstream
[10:21] <_sev> git checkout master
[10:22] <_sev> git merge upstream/master
[10:22] <_sev> git checkout move-macgui
[10:22] <_sev> git rebase master
[10:23] <_sev> expect to resolve merge conflicts, but not many
[10:23] <_sev> at least one
[10:23] <waltervn> Tkachov: welcome!
[10:23] <_sev> your merge with upstream/master must be fast-forward
[10:23] <blorente> okay, I'll do it right now
[10:24] <_sev> if not, then you have modifications to your local master
[10:24] <blorente> Yeah, my master branch is already up to date
[10:24] <blorente> I have to do the second part
[10:24] <blorente> Wow, Tkachov, congratulations :)
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[10:26] <Tkachov> thanks! =)
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[10:28] <_sev> wanwan: how is your engine, btw?
[10:31] <wjp> blorente: your GRAPHICS: Extend colorKey functionality in TransparentSurface commit might not do what you think it does
[10:32] <wjp> the conditions newR >= 0 and such are always true
[10:34] <m_kiewitz> Tkachov: yeah welcome to the team.
[10:34] <t0by> Tkachov, congratulations!
[10:35] <Begasus> morning, and welcome to the new teammember Tkachov, congratulations!
[10:35] <blorente> wjp: I'll chek it out once I finish the merge, thanks :)
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[10:42] <Begasus> wonder how Tkachov work will turn out on Haiku .... would be interesting I guess to check it out :)
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[10:50] <GitHub34> [scummvm] Tkachov pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vKpo2
[10:50] <GitHub34> scummvm/master f50d9fe Alexander Tkachev: WAGE: Make menu items show Save/Load dialog...
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[11:00] <Deledrius> Hooray, Tkachov!
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[11:45] <blorente> _sev so I've integrated Tkachov's changes (I think), and it is now able to auto-merge branches. I'm going to open the pr
[11:46] <_sev> nice
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[11:51] <GitHub157> [scummvm] blorente opened pull request #796: GRAPHICS/WAGE: Extract Mac GUI system. (master...move-macgui) https://git.io/vKp10
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[11:51] <blorente> Hey, we have CI! hadn't noticed that :)
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[12:13] <wjp> hm, quite a few intermediate commits of that move-macgui PR don't compile
[12:15] <blorente> Is it because of the missing classes= (Chr, Scene...)
[12:15] <blorente> ?
[12:16] <blorente> That's fixed in the last commit
[12:18] <blorente> wjp^
[12:20] <_sev> blorente: you could rearrange the commit order
[12:21] <blorente> Yes, actually :) However, some more of them won't compile, since there are some movements that are divided into "taking out of wage" and "putting into graphics"
[12:21] <blorente> I have tried to put the "put into graphics" commits first, so as to break as little as possible, but I haven't accomplished that every time
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[12:29] <_sev> blorente: you can always squash those in one, e.g. move the file and simultaneously update references in WAGE
[12:30] <blorente> _sev: I had it that way originally, but you told me to separate WAGE commits from GRAPHICS commits.
[12:31] <_sev> I did not meant separate to that level, sorry
[12:31] <_sev> for instance, your code for loading border from the bitmaps in WAGE should go separately
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[12:31] <_sev> but moving the files, not, as that breaks compilation
[12:32] <_sev> once you update history, you need to force push to your branch, and nothing else Github wil pick it up
[12:33] <_sev> blorente: also for some reason the macmenu.cpp file move is lost
[12:33] <_sev> blorente: e.g. you have 2 files now
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[12:36] <_sev> blorente: what did you see?
[12:36] <_blorente> _sev darn... I spent some time separatig those xD
[12:37] <_blorente> The extra file transfer must have been my fault when rebasig with upstream
[12:38] <_sev> so now I assume it is just matter of squashing
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[12:40] <_blorente> _sev yeah, it looks like it. New plan is to move the missing dependencies commit back, the find the commits that move the macmenu and squash them, and then re-squash the transfer commits
[12:40] <_blorente> And after that, work on fixing what wjp pointed out
[12:41] Nick change: _blorente -> blorente1
[12:41] <_sev> what wjp points out: just move your final commit after the move
[12:41] <_sev> after the file move
[12:41] <_sev> or even squash it into those
[12:42] <blorente1> I meant te missig docs in the transparent surface code
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[12:43] <_sev> ah, right
[12:43] <_sev> just saw those too
[12:44] <_sev> blorente: do I understand correctly, tat I need to create the border BMP for WAGE?
[12:45] <blorente1> Nop, you dont. MacWindow has your borders as a default fallback, so if you don't load any border into it, it will use the original ones
[12:45] <blorente1> _sev^
[12:46] <_sev> well, I'd like to kill that code and use a bitmap instead
[12:47] <blorente1> That is also possible, it's what I do in macventure
[12:47] <_sev> so, I assume, the actual answer is 'yes', in the sense that you haven't created them
[12:47] <_sev> no problem, I'll look into it
[12:48] Action: _sev afks
[12:49] <blorente1> Oh, I thought you were asking about whether or not you were _forced_ to createthem xD my bad. Anyways, it'd take me very little time, if you'd like me to do them
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[12:49] Action: blorente1 goes for a run, will be back in an hour or so
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[13:22] <WooShell> meow =^.^=
[13:34] <omer_mor_> Are you happy with your sourceforge's mailing list services? Have you considered moving to Google Groups instead?
[13:34] <omer_mor_> I find sourceforge to be ugly and not very usable...
[13:35] <omer_mor_> And we use Google Groups at work all the time and it's not bad
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[13:40] <t0by> Not that my opinion counts, but I consider google groups to be pretty awful.
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[13:41] <t0by> I especially hate how the web visualization flattens the message hierarchy.
[13:42] <t0by> Also I kind of am suspicious of google after it sort of deliberately broke its XMPP implementation, in a move reminiscent of the worst EEE practices at Microsoft in the 90s.
[13:43] <omer_mor_> EEE?
[13:44] Nick change: omer_mor_ -> omer_mor
[13:44] <t0by> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend_and_extinguish
[13:46] <omer_mor> well - i have no idea why they abandoned xmpp. but i guess they had a good reason... I don't hink it was some kind of malicious intent
[13:46] <t0by> I got bitten by it. My contacts keep asking "why didn't you reply to that message I sent you on Google", and I'm like "What, how?". Also I can no longer receive messages from XMPP accounts on other servers. At this point I would simply log out or turn off Google Talk or delete my account or something, but turns out you can't. You can only send mass mails to your contacts every now and then reminding them that nobody will r
[13:46] <t0by> ead their messages unless I happen to have the webmail open (which basically never happens).
[13:47] <t0by> omer_mor, they haven't exactly abandoned it - more like, you can still log in with any XMPP client, but it's useless. Oh, of course there is a nice desktop client... that requires you to have Chrome installed and an account on the Play Store.
[13:48] <t0by> omer_mor, breaking support for an internet standard in favor of a walled garden of proprietary products *is*, in my book, malicious and plain evil.
[13:48] <t0by> Like, Spectre-evil.
[13:48] <omer_mor> =)
[13:49] <omer_mor> I think the messaging apps ecosystem is simply not that interesting. any other big companies have xmpp-enabled messangers?
[13:49] <t0by> Oh, and "I see you reply to my text messages, but why didn't you answer that call?" "What call?" "On hangouts!"
[13:50] <omer_mor> I think the big messaging apps are facebook and whatsapp
[13:50] <omer_mor> neither support any standard
[13:50] <t0by> And me, I think they are evil.
[13:50] <t0by> interestingly, Facebook did a botched form of XMPP, I think.
[13:51] <t0by> Anyway, I don't own a smartphone and Facebook insists that it wants to see ID to determine that my real name is, in fact, "Raging A. Sshole" (well, the italian equivalent). And sadly I can't provide that.
[13:52] <omer_mor> I just think the use-case of xmpp messaging is marginal at best
[13:52] <omer_mor> so google proably lost interest
[13:54] <t0by> You know, XMPP is an internet standard. The use case for internet messaging is not marginal and Google *did* correctly support XMPP in the 00s. I think it's plain obvious how anybody who runs a messaging service that doesn't expose an XMPP interface does so because it wants to grow its own walled garden.
[13:55] <snover> re missing script stuff from last night, seems that sci companion doesnt read things out of the PATCHES directory, and GK1 has a ton of them
[13:55] Action: t0by weee GK1
[13:56] <omer_mor> snover: i was about to ask you about that. good catch
[13:56] <omer_mor> I'll tell Phil
[13:56] <snover> re XMPP, i agree that there is no good reason for its abandonment
[13:57] <t0by> omer_mor, I would say "imagine if Gmail only allowed you to communicate with other Gmail users", but then that's what Facebook does and it has done a lot of good to them. So that's where things are headed, I guess.
[13:57] <t0by> Sorry for the OT
[13:57] <omer_mor> why don't you join the sciprogramming.com forums yourself? you could tell him yourself that way
[13:57] <snover> there is a bugtracker for it on github
[13:57] <omer_mor> snover: yeah, but there's a more active bug reporting thread on sciprogramming
[13:58] <omer_mor> i'll grab a link
[13:58] <snover> that sounds like a horrible way to try to manage issues
[13:58] <snover> do i have to read all the posts to see if it has been reported already?
[13:58] <omer_mor> http://sciprogramming.com/community/index.php?topic=1420.0
[13:59] <omer_mor> snover: it is - but it makes for an interesting converations :-)
[13:59] <omer_mor> and for the record, I don't think this bug has been reported before
[14:00] <snover> i dont feel like reading 55 pages to find out
[14:01] <omer_mor> on a related note, I find it very strange that scummvm's sci dev community is seperate from the sciprogramming community
[14:01] <snover> i do see some people seem to think resource.aud/sfx are the same on all cds, this is definitely not the case
[14:01] <m_kiewitz> snover: we should have support for those files after being simply renamed though
[14:01] <snover> m_kiewitz: sorry, i dont understand, im still waking up. what do you mean?
[14:02] <snover> omer_mor: same thing, dont know why it is strange that they arent the same?
[14:02] <m_kiewitz> I mean there are for example different RESOURCE.AUD and RESOURCE.SFX files on the GK2 CDs
[14:02] <snover> m_kiewitz: yes.
[14:02] <m_kiewitz> what I mean is that we should support it, when someone just renames those to "RESSFX.001", etc.
[14:02] <snover> got it. yes. that is on my TODO list.
[14:02] <m_kiewitz> so no merging would be needed
[14:03] <m_kiewitz> and RESAUD.001 etc.
[14:03] <_sev_> omer_mor: I have almost everything ready for moving to lists.scummvm.org
[14:03] <m_kiewitz> that would use the same naming scheme was the other files
[14:03] <m_kiewitz> s/was/as
[14:03] <snover> yeah
[14:05] <omer_mor> since the sci sub-culture is very niche - it feels strange that the people in it are seperated into 2 almost mutualy-exclusive groups
[14:05] <omer_mor> https://xkcd.com/1095/
[14:05] <omer_mor> I think the only 2 people that visit both groups are lskovlund and me
[14:06] <m_kiewitz> well that one guy, who originally created that Space Quest 4 CD+Floppy version was and still is pissed at us for blocking his so called "patch", although you could run that as a stand-alone and we classified it as pirated game because of that
[14:06] <omer_mor> sev: good to know! sourceforge is horrible
[14:07] <m_kiewitz> funnily he now created actual scripts, that extract all sorts of files from sq4 floppy and merges it into resource files of sq4 cd ... and we haven't blocked that of course
[14:07] <m_kiewitz> still weird that he did merge the data into the resource file, because of that we can't detect it as sq4 anymore. if he just used patch files, that would have still worked
[14:07] <omer_mor> m_kiewitz: newrisingsun is a member of neither group. he's a lonewolf
[14:08] <m_kiewitz> oh ok, but yeah, there are weird things like that
[14:09] <omer_mor> m_kiewitz: there are also the sci fans that think un-dithering sci0 ega graphics is heresy. I still don't think it's good enough reason for separation
[14:09] <m_kiewitz> yeah well, that feature was never forced onto anyone
[14:10] <m_kiewitz> i actually told a youtube let's player about it, and he actually loved it (and missed it, because it's hidden away in an engine option lol)
[14:10] <omer_mor> i think there are maybe ~20-30 people in the world that give a f**k about sci games - so it's strange they are seperated. that's all.
[14:11] <m_kiewitz> yes, although I think at least the SCI companion developer looked quite a lot at ScummVM/SCI sources
[14:11] <m_kiewitz> so indirectly it's somewhat a collaboration
[14:11] <omer_mor> freesci had even more graphic enhancments - that were not implemented in scummvm
[14:11] <m_kiewitz> and well we sometimes use SCI companion for checking game scripts
[14:12] <omer_mor> Phil used scummvm's source extensively. And I understand that his decompiler help you guys - so win-win
[14:12] <m_kiewitz> yes, but i think the freesci higher res background stuff never fully worked, could be wrong though
[14:12] <m_kiewitz> yes
[14:13] <m_kiewitz> some other people are angry about our AGI engine, like for example no way to turn off mouse and other things
[14:13] <m_kiewitz> but instead of reporting that as a bug or so, they post in forums
[14:13] <m_kiewitz> i actually read that and added an option, so that you can turn mouse cursor off
[14:14] <omer_mor> that's nice of you.
[14:14] <m_kiewitz> and i also tried to accurately implement the AGI system dialogs, which didn't really look the same as in original agi
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[14:14] <m_kiewitz> well, i understand such a complaint, and I even agree somewhat with it, on PC AGI never had mouse cursors
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[14:16] <m_kiewitz> funnily i never read a post saying that all of those issues were gone with 1.8 :P
[14:16] <omer_mor> I guess most people are into vintage computing because of nostalgia. and nostalgia can be touchy if not done 100% like you remember it.
[14:16] <omer_mor> personally - I prefer all the enhacmenents like un-dithering and agi mouse
[14:17] <omer_mor> but i understand why people can feel differently
[14:17] <m_kiewitz> well for me it depends. i for example like ScummVM save/restore game dialogs, because they offer more slots, screenshots, etc.
[14:17] <m_kiewitz> i understand that people would want to see the original dialogs, and they actually have an option to get those
[14:18] <t0by> (Relevant to the XMPP discussion: http://www.xkcd.com/743/)
[14:18] <m_kiewitz> it's always difficult. Like that one actual well done fan-port of Sonic CD onto smartphones, which actually is an official port now and which is quite beloved by fans
[14:19] <m_kiewitz> funnily that port changed the game to 16:9 and other tweaks like for example smooth frame rate.
[14:19] <m_kiewitz> couldn't find people complaining about those :P
[14:19] <m_kiewitz> it's always complicated
[14:20] <m_kiewitz> we also fix all sorts of game bugs on the fly as you know
[14:20] <omer_mor> t0by: =D
[14:20] <m_kiewitz> that also in some way defeats a truly authentic experience
[14:20] <m_kiewitz> i always wondered if there should be an engine option to disable all of those patches and if we should on top add the typical Sierra "Oops, you did do something that we didn't expect" dialog
[14:21] <omer_mor> m_kiewitz: I don't think people miss *that* :-)
[14:21] <m_kiewitz> you never know :P
[14:21] <omer_mor> but yes - it's complicated
[14:21] <m_kiewitz> i actually got a division by zero in Codename: ICEMAN, when I played through it as a child
[14:22] <omer_mor> but do you think this complication is enough to explain the group seperation?
[14:22] <m_kiewitz> i even wrote Sierra a letter and got an actualy reply back from Sierra that I drove the wrong way lol
[14:22] <omer_mor> m_kiewitz: cool! do you still have that letter?
[14:22] <m_kiewitz> yes, sure
[14:22] <snover> so, i think you mentioned some utility for combining patches into a resource bundle? that would be probably useful for me for right now to get these patched scripts decompiled
[14:22] <omer_mor> have a scan handy?
[14:22] <m_kiewitz> well i hope so, would have to go through my stuff, but im sure i didn't throw it away
[14:23] <omer_mor> snover: you can just copy the patches to the root folder of the game
[14:23] <m_kiewitz> snover: look on the dos-box forums, but can't you copy the patch files to root game directory?
[14:23] <snover> omer_mor: alright, that was the thing i was trying right this second in fact
[14:23] <m_kiewitz> i need to look for it first
[14:24] <omer_mor> m_kiewitz: don't put too much effort - it would just be a cool thing to see
[14:24] <m_kiewitz> i fully played through ICEMAN the first time a few years ago under ScummVM
[14:25] <m_kiewitz> there are quite a few dead ends in the game
[14:25] <m_kiewitz> and other issues
[14:25] <omer_mor> iceman is a terrible game
[14:25] <snover> aww.
[14:26] <omer_mor> this is an interesting thread from vogons about iceman: https://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=47621
[14:26] <omer_mor> I helped one guy figure out how to get full 300 points on iceman
[14:28] <omer_mor> it certainly makes the case why this game is terrible
[14:28] <snover> i guess different people have different definitions of terrible :)
[14:29] <m_kiewitz> omer_mor: just found it
[14:29] <m_kiewitz> i even noticed that i wrote them more than once. And I even must have contacted LucasArts support via snail mail as well back then
[14:29] <omer_mor> regarding GK1: how does scummv know to look inthe PATCHES folder? is it hard-coded or does it read RESOURCE.CFG ?
[14:30] <m_kiewitz> it's hardcoded
[14:30] <omer_mor> m_kiewitz: cool! scan them all!
[14:30] <m_kiewitz> well iceman is something fresh, yeah flawed, but parts are very nicely designed
[14:30] <snover> heres a part of gk1 source where they check if kPlatform is 1, and if so, then check if kPlatform is 1&
[14:30] <omer_mor> hehe
[14:30] <snover> good stuff.
[14:30] <snover> and this is the *patched* version of this script :P
[14:31] <omer_mor> they want to make sure =)
[14:31] <omer_mor> wanted*
[14:31] <omer_mor> maybe they wanted to support a mutating platform
[14:33] <snover> what the heck& how did this stuff ever work in the real engine
[14:33] <snover> i sure wish that these win16 executables were not phar lap
[14:34] <m_kiewitz> omer_mor: http://i.imgur.com/uJYcOyi.jpg
[14:35] <m_kiewitz> will scan those next week
[14:37] <omer_mor> nice response
[14:37] <omer_mor> thanks for sharing
[14:37] <omer_mor> why did you mark your name? Martin is not your real name?
[14:37] <m_kiewitz> well it's on the internet and I don't want to share some old address with the internet :P
[14:37] <omer_mor> I get the address, just not the name
[14:38] <snover> it is so you can write your own name in
[14:38] <m_kiewitz> yeah, well i rather remove more than necessary :P
[14:38] <omer_mor> "Dear <BLANK>, "
[14:39] <m_kiewitz> lol
[14:39] <m_kiewitz> yeah
[14:39] <m_kiewitz> you never know what imgur does with those photos
[14:40] <snover> ok! looks like these gk1 patched scripts need patching&
[14:41] <snover> they try to render the credits.avi at the wrong resolution, and the intro.avi with the wrong aspect ratio
[14:41] <omer_mor> so how do they work eventually in ssci?
[14:42] <snover> https://zetafleet.com/i/579b6b46000a7.png
[14:42] <snover> that image is supposed to be 640x480
[14:42] <m_kiewitz> snover: try it in dos-box
[14:42] <m_kiewitz> maybe the dos interpreter ignored those parameters
[14:42] <snover> the dos interpreter cannot play avi files :)
[14:43] <snover> it uses SEQ files instead, totally different
[14:44] <m_kiewitz> oh right
[14:44] <m_kiewitz> so that was broken all the time? urgh
[14:46] <snover> i guess not a lot of people stuck around to watch the credits
[14:47] <omer_mor> "Sonny Bonds is the protagonist of the first three of Sierra's classic Police Quest adventure games, created by Jim Walls (who named the classic character after one of his own sons, Sonny Walls)" [http://www.sierrachest.com/index.php?a=g&id=74&fld=eggs&gconf=1]
[14:48] <omer_mor> Sonny Walls is also the technical support representative who replied your mail, m_kiewitz
[14:48] <omer_mor> do you think it's the same person?
[14:49] <m_kiewitz> who knows... maybe?
[14:49] <m_kiewitz> snover: yes, but QA should lol
[14:49] <omer_mor> actually it is! see http://www.mocagh.org/sierra/pq3-hintbook.pdf page 4
[14:50] <omer_mor> Interview with the Real Sonny Bonds
[14:50] <omer_mor> Sonny Walls is 23 and lives in Oakhurst, California with his wife
[14:50] <omer_mor> Susan and their dalmatian, Savannah. He works for Sierra On-Line's
[14:50] <omer_mor> Customer Service Department. He and Susan are expecting a new
[14:50] <omer_mor> baby before next Christmas. They plan to call the baby Christopher
[14:50] <omer_mor> James Walls, if Susan has a boy, or Jessica Elizabeth Walls, if Susan
[14:50] <omer_mor> has a girl.
[14:50] <snover> m_kiewitz: sierra had a QA ? :)
[14:50] <omer_mor> m_kiewitz: so you got a letter from Jim Walls' son... cool
[14:50] <m_kiewitz> snover: for some games they had incredible QA, and surely better in any case than the QA for games that are released nowadays
[14:51] <m_kiewitz> dang, i need to get those hint books
[14:51] <snover> who needs QA these days when you can just use your fans as free QA :P
[14:51] <m_kiewitz> yes, they even pay you to do the job
[14:51] <m_kiewitz> *cough* Bethesda *cough*
[14:53] <m_kiewitz> Quest for Glory 1 + 2 had almost no bugs at all, and that's quite impressive
[14:56] <omer_mor> Q: What's it like having the main character in one of Sierra's major
[14:56] <omer_mor> games based on you?
[14:56] <omer_mor> A: "Well, around here sometimes (other Sierra employees) will call me
[14:56] <omer_mor> Sonny Bonds instead of Sonny Walls. They're joking around, of course.
[14:56] <omer_mor> But when true Sierra fans are introduced to me, they'll ask for my
[14:56] <omer_mor> autograph, or sometimes ask me to send my photo to them.
[14:56] <omer_mor> m_kiewitz: you got his autograph! =)
[14:57] <m_kiewitz> heh, i actually also got an autograph from Al Lowe
[14:59] <broosky> w00t sonny bonds
[14:59] <broosky> PQ3 was badass
[15:00] <broosky> and i never finished PQ1, was replaying on tablet a while ago
[15:00] <omer_mor> I loved pq2
[15:00] <broosky> but this game requires arcade-ish controls
[15:01] <broosky> which doesnt work too well with touchscreens
[15:01] <broosky> never played pq2, from what i know it was never released in VGA or higher res
[15:01] <broosky> so it was too vintage for me
[15:01] <WooShell> i haven't touched PQ in more than 20 years.. o.O
[15:01] <broosky> i watch PQ3 intro from time to time :)
[15:02] <WooShell> why that?
[15:02] <broosky> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ufKJk5Ri4A
[15:02] <broosky> well because its awesome
[15:02] <broosky> and brings back good memories
[15:03] <broosky> oh and jan hammer on the soundtrack :)
[15:03] <broosky> i think the soundblaster version is better
[15:08] <omer_mor> Compare PQ3 intro (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0t4mRnAojE) with Children of Bodom - Downfall (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0t4mRnAojE)
[15:08] <omer_mor> COB totally ripped it off
[15:11] <m_kiewitz> broosky: Jan Hammer music, love it
[15:13] Nick change: Begasus -> Begas_afk
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[18:14] <GitHub9> [scummvm] Mailaender opened pull request #797: Added an appdata.xml file (master...appdata) https://git.io/vKhEC
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[18:17] <snover> dont suppose there are instructions anywhere about how to add segments to SCIVM?
[18:19] <m_kiewitz> SCIVM? add segments?
[18:19] <snover> ah well, doesnt seem to terribly complicated. (famous last words.)
[18:21] <snover> yes, vm memory segments. engine/segment.cpp
[18:21] <wjp> bitmaps or unmanaged hunk space?
[18:21] <snover> bitmaps
[18:22] <snover> since it seems to be necessary for the next few pull requests I will be making to be accepted and landed :)
[18:22] <wjp> SegmentObjTable should take care of most of that probably
[18:22] <snover> im pulling BitmapResource from text32 to SciBitmap in the VM
[18:26] <rootfather> _sev when do we add new supported games to the NEWS?
[18:26] <rootfather> I'm especially asking for https://github.com/scummvm/scummvm/commit/7c19e2661014f27e2031e44d5cee19eea63d4c8f
[18:27] <wjp> these are not supported
[18:32] <wjp> (SCI32 games)
[18:34] <wjp> it should've had a SCI32: prefix I suppose
[18:37] <m_kiewitz> snover: were those saved in original SCI32?
[18:37] <snover> m_kiewitz: some were and some were not
[18:37] <m_kiewitz> o_O
[18:37] <m_kiewitz> was there some kind of flag?
[18:38] <snover> quite a few flags, not sure which ones influence it
[18:38] <snover> movable, swappable, persist, transitory, lockedsave, lockednosave
[18:39] <snover> applicable to all memory handles
[18:39] <snover> we know that bitmaps in the render tree need to be saved because the render tree is saved
[18:40] <m_kiewitz> i wonder why they even bothered and simply did not just save all bitmaps
[18:40] <snover> but other ones are transient, like the ones that are created during room transitions, video playback
[18:41] <snover> unfortunately, it is possible to yield back to the VM and potentially trigger a garbage collection while in the middle of playback,
[18:42] <snover> so there has to be a way to opt out of GC. i added that to the hunk memory, but everyone thought it was a bad code smell, so i am adding a bitmap segment instead, which will have to have the same option&
[18:42] <snover> its worth adding the bitmap segment no matter what anyway, BitmapResource utilisation was getting a little crazy
[18:49] <blorente> _sev I'm having an unusually big amount of trouble getting every commit to compile now that I am trying to re-squash them. Do you mind if I try again tomorrow with a clearer mind?
[18:51] <_sev> blorente: there is no timeline. Thank you for your effort
[18:52] <blorente> _sev: Thank you :) I asked to see how urgent it was, I don't want to be a bottleneck :)
[18:52] <_sev> rootfather: when the engine authors feel that those games are ready for the public testing and that they will not be overwhelmed by the reports about known bugs
[18:52] Action: blorente collapses on the keyboard :)
[18:53] <blorente> See you guys tomorrow :)
[18:53] <blorente> bye!
[18:53] <wjp> sleep well :-)
[18:53] <wjp> snover: had you already looked into that Torin segfault at all?
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[18:53] <snover> wjp: the plane 0000:0000 not found one?
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[18:54] <wjp> the one when hitting some buttons in the main menu you get on startup
[18:54] <snover> oh. no, i never got the main menu because of that bug you were working on with the savegames i think
[18:55] <wjp> I guess I should have a look then to see if it's related
[18:56] <snover> there is some null plane issue that occurs in multiple games, i found a place in phant1 where it is reproducible
[18:57] <wjp> this one seems to be somewhere in CelObj::draw
[18:57] <wjp> (reading from 0x18 for some reason; will investigate)
[18:58] <snover> sounds like something is a nullptr
[18:58] <snover> like, say, a bitmap that got garbage collected& :S
[18:58] <wjp> hum
[18:59] <wjp> type = Sci::kCelTypeMem
[18:59] <wjp> so that doesn't seem unlikely
[19:00] <snover> try cherry pick b7829f17bb213d55be867ff54e7725c95b6da257
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[19:00] <wjp> nope
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[19:01] <snover> hum.
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[19:03] <wjp> although it did change behaviour a bit
[19:04] <wjp> it is also doing suspicious kString stuff
[19:04] <snover> haha. no way. :~)
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[19:04] <wjp> in any case it seems like it's not something I'm breaking with this autosave patch
[19:05] <wjp> I'm tempted to just submit that as a PR as-is
[19:06] <snover> there are a couple places where i cant have ASan turned on because of kString, though of course I cant remember where
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[19:10] <GitHub111> [scummvm] wjp opened pull request #798: SCI32: Support Torin's autosave system (master...torin_saving) https://git.io/vKhr9
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[19:20] <rootfather> good to know wjp, I thought they where SCI based
[19:21] <rootfather> so in general, I think they are announced when the devs think they are ready to play and not upon plain detection?
[19:21] <rootfather> _sev lol basically what you said, I totally missed your reply :D
[19:22] <_sev> hehe
[19:22] <_sev> also usually it is the time when they get to the compatibility chart
[19:23] <_sev> the only exception so far was the Personal Nightmare, as we got 0 (zero, zilch) playtests for the game. Thus Kirben hesitated to declare it compatible
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[19:28] <rootfather> damn, this reminds me that Personal Nightmare is still an item on my neverending todo list
[19:28] <rootfather> as well as moonbase commander and gnap :/
[19:32] <_sev> rootfather: you have 24 hours per day as all of us
[19:35] <rootfather> :D
[19:36] <rootfather> Personal Nightmare runs at least... I played to the very first steps using a walkthrough
[19:36] <rootfather> I
[19:36] <rootfather> I *think* I've spotted a wrong sprite at one point, but I have to verify this against DOSBox
[19:37] <rootfather> planning to complete it in the next days, it now has top priority for me
[19:37] <_sev> :)
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[19:57] <snover> wjp: & is it actually possible to generate a segment entry without a default constructor?
[19:57] <snover> i suppose it doesnt matter that much, i can just move the parameters to another method
[20:02] <omer_mor> I added the missing SCI Hoyle games (hoyle classic games, hoyle bridge, hoyle children's collection and hoyle solitaire) to scummvm's wiki.
[20:02] <snover> thanks!
[20:02] <omer_mor> I also want to add them to the game versions page (http://wiki.scummvm.org/index.php/Sierra_Game_Versions)
[20:02] <snover> please do
[20:02] <omer_mor> however, I don't know whether they're sci 2.1 early, middle or late
[20:03] <m_kiewitz> just start them
[20:03] <m_kiewitz> and then enter "version" in the debug console
[20:03] <omer_mor> ok
[20:04] <omer_mor> middle it is then :)
[20:04] <omer_mor> thanks
[20:05] <snover> sci2.1mid , the most ambiguous of the sci2.1 engines :)
[20:05] <_sev> sci2.1prepostmidlate
[20:05] <snover> :))
[20:05] <_sev> poor you, guys dealing with that mess
[20:05] <snover> at least i know someone reads my late night rants into the chat :)
[20:06] <_sev> :D
[20:10] <omer_mor> :-)
[20:11] <omer_mor> snover: you're not from the usa?
[20:11] <snover> i am from planet earth! greetings. human. i think.
[20:12] <omer_mor> i'm referring to the "late night" remark. I thought the sun is high in sky for you now.
[20:13] <snover> oh, sure, but usually i complain the most at night :~)
[20:13] <omer_mor> 'k
[20:15] <snover> also, its always night time somewhere where i am
[20:15] <wanwan> are you locked in deep basement?
[20:15] <_sev> chained is more proper word
[20:15] <snover> :)
[20:16] <_sev> wanwan: how is your engine?
[20:16] <wanwan> in front of pc, i suppose. "we won't let you go until SCI engine is perfect!"
[20:17] <wanwan> _sev: haven't progressed very much. converting ugly code to a pretty one turned out to be a really painful task
[20:18] <_sev> I see
[20:18] <_sev> maybe you're too much of a perfectionist?
[20:18] <wanwan> nah, just lack of programming skills, i guess
[20:18] <omer_mor> done.
[20:19] <wanwan> like, i had trouble deciding how to implement simple lz decompression code in a nice-looking manner
[20:19] <omer_mor> in the process I edited wikipedia, and send an edit suggestion to mobygames.
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[20:20] <wanwan> my every attempt resulted in an ugly mess
[20:20] <_sev> wanwan: we have couple of those in our common code
[20:22] <wanwan> well, i guess this one is a bit different from reference lz77 one
[20:22] <wanwan> not by much, though
[20:23] <_sev> can zlib process it?
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[20:24] <wanwan> zlib? i don't think so
[20:28] <_sev> t0by: anything I could help with?
[20:29] <t0by> _sev, nah, don't worry.
[20:30] <t0by> i was specifically looking for a bald belgian with a love of bad humor and good food.
[20:30] <t0by> brb
[20:30] <t0by> *frenchman, damn.
[20:31] <_sev> t0by: sorry, it is an all opposite for me, except the bad humor. Mine is worse
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[20:38] <GitHub131> [scummvm] rootfather pushed 2 new commits to master: https://git.io/vKhHK
[20:38] <GitHub131> scummvm/master 5167c57 Lothar Serra Mari: NEWS: Mention mouse cursor fix for Myst
[20:38] <GitHub131> scummvm/master 5503c99 Lothar Serra Mari: NEWS: Mention SDL1/Win32 keymapping fix
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[20:49] <rootfather> good night folks, see you tomorrow
[20:52] <snover> what the heck. why does the vm think this new segment is error
[20:52] <snover> what magic incantation did i miss&
[20:53] <snover> aha.
[20:53] <snover> Kernel::findRegType also needs to be touched
[21:01] <snover> well that works but the commit history is going to be a little messy.
[21:02] <_sev> snover: not for the first time
[21:11] <snover> it should be not too bad, just like one superfluous commit adding the heap gc opt-out and then a few commits later replacing it with bitmap segment
[21:13] <snover> this avi/kshowmovie player api is just too awful. after all the stupid they did with having multiple movie IDs they never played more than one movie at a time
[21:14] <snover> and it wouldnt have even worked if they had done since they didnt store things in a map, so there could only ever be one of htem
[21:14] <snover> big sigh.
[21:20] <_sev> :)
[21:20] <_sev> let's decalre it "Fork-based development"
[21:21] <_sev> or "Branched Development Sierra Made" for the love of the acronyms
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[22:09] <GitHub64> [scummvm] sev- pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vKhjq
[22:09] <GitHub64> scummvm/master 98342f4 Eugene Sandulenko: FULLPIPE: Added more debug output to pathfinding
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[22:50] <L0ngcat> hmm. very weird to see people in the forums feeling offended over something that has not happened, and accusing people of ruining something they have not contributed a single line of code to themselves. I'll be thee first to admit I do not like RPG's, but this guy is just a douche.
[22:52] <snover> wut
[22:53] <L0ngcat> http://forums.scummvm.org/viewtopic.php?p=83111#83111
[22:54] <snover> man, people are extra crazy this week
[22:54] <L0ngcat> must be the heat
[22:55] <snover> i got told i was a conformist like in nazi germany in ##c++-general two days ago for telling someone that they should stop trying to circumvent bans on reddit and imgur by writing a program to automatically create hundreds of sock puppet accounts
[22:55] <snover> i went away for a while and the whole thing turned into a dumpster fire
[22:56] <snover> an even bigger dumpster fire*
[22:58] <snover> speaking of dumpsters, i have to fix a bunch of branches now
[23:01] <L0ngcat> I think people sometimes forget that the guy on the other end of the internet is probably 12 years old
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[23:03] <snover> no, no, nothing but us 13-year-olds here
[23:03] <L0ngcat> :D
[23:04] <snover> in related/unrelated topics, it is so nice how xcode integrates with git so i can jump to conflicts from the issues pane
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[23:17] <snover> oh my god. travis ci for pulls! woooooo
[23:20] <snover> i wonder if travis uses renewable energy for their build farm
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[23:20] <GitHub43> [scummvm] sev- closed pull request #779: KYRA: Update Italian EOB1 translation (master...patch-1) https://git.io/vKU4t
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[23:20] <GitHub131> [scummvm] sev- pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vKjTN
[23:20] <GitHub131> scummvm/master dc52475 theruler: KYRA: Update eob1_dos_italian.h (#779)...
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[23:31] <GitHub76> [scummvm] sev- pushed 4 new commits to master: https://git.io/vKjkF
[23:31] <GitHub76> scummvm/master f3e77b2 Eugene Sandulenko: KYRA: Bump kyra.dat version for updated Italian EOB1 changes
[23:31] <GitHub76> scummvm/master e508b14 Eugene Sandulenko: KYRA: Regenerate kyra.dat
[23:31] <GitHub76> scummvm/master 9bb4d87 Eugene Sandulenko: NEWS: Sort engines in 1.9.0 alphabetically
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