[00:01] I think I looked into that INN stuff and part of it were actual programs, not scripts [00:03] some of it [00:03] like the red baron game, yeah [00:03] all the cool stuff isn't lsci, basically :P [00:04] so it's kinda useless :P [00:06] alas [00:19] Javacat (~Javacat@unaffiliated/javacat) left irc: Ping timeout: 264 seconds [00:23] DOSFreak (~D0SFreak@172.56.0.141) joined #scummvm. [00:26] m_kiewitz (~m_kiewitz@kons-4d026ae2.pool.mediaWays.net) left irc: Quit: technology isn't intrinsically good or evil. It's how it's used. Like the Death Ray. [00:27] D0SFreak (~D0SFreak@184.75.221.226) left irc: Ping timeout: 265 seconds [00:30] DOSFreak (~D0SFreak@172.56.0.141) left irc: Quit: If I'm not back in 5 minutes....just wait longer! [00:30] D0SFreak (~D0SFreak@209.222.5.228) joined #scummvm. [00:31] NotJavacat (~Javacat@unaffiliated/javacat) joined #scummvm. 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[12:32] chkr (~chkr@p5DC48190.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) left irc: Ping timeout: 245 seconds [12:34] chkr (~chkr@p5DC4AB2E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #scummvm. [13:22] Sir_Burpalot (~Shloosh@unaffiliated/shloosh) joined #scummvm. [13:24] How soon is ScummVM going to switch to SDL 2? SDL 1 has no Retina display support on OS X. [13:24] Everything is rendered at half the native DPI and then upscaled. [13:27] That's not much of an issue when you're playing a game in its native resolution, but as soon as you maximise the window (because fullscreen is broken) or turn on aspect ratio correction, things start to look ugly. [13:28] just add NSHighResolutionCapable to the plist [13:31] Perhaps I'm doing something wrong, but it didn't help. [13:32] Well, to be fair, that's not really the biggest issue with SDL1 on OS X [13:32] Crashes when switching fullscreen/windowed is a bit worse [13:32] But, the answer to your first question is: Not any time soon at all. [13:33] And never "switching" to SDL 2. Supporting it, eventually [13:33] That's a shame. I wish someone would make a Boxer for ScummVM. [13:33] Well, at some point SDL1 will get too old I guess [13:33] seeing as it's unmaintained [13:33] It's a shame SDL2 made crazy decisions [13:34] Well, that, and the fact that it's not really mature enough yet. [13:34] SDL1 is already too old. It isn't just Apple computers that have high-DPI displays. [13:34] aquadran tried to port ResidualVM to SDL2, IIRC OpenGL context creation was broken on OS X in SDL 2. [13:34] Sir_Burpalot: Pfft, High-Dpi is just a lack of a new feature [13:35] It's worse when things get obsoleted. [13:35] Like when OS X 10.7 was released, and SDL 1.2.14 suddenly was unable to go fullscreen at all. [13:36] Happily 1.2.15 was released to fix that, but I wouldn't bet on another round of fixes like that, I _WOULD_ however bet on Apple deprecating more stuff in the future. [13:36] (fullscreen is broken on OS X?) [13:36] wjp: Not consistently [13:36] so, that's a yes? :-) [13:36] But I did some testing with my GoG-bought LSL [13:36] It's just that most open-source projects poop on high DPI, except for GNOME 3 and Firefox. [13:36] wjp: yes [13:37] it can't switch consistently, and IIRC updating from 1.5.0 to 1.6.0 didn't help atleast. [13:37] wjp: on Retina displays, it appears to be broken. [13:37] Sir_Burpalot: It's a case of "someone needs to care AND have the hw" [13:38] somaen: and free time [13:38] With the OpenGL renderer, at least. [13:38] Well, does the normal renderer work? [13:38] did anybody already investigate _why_ it's broken? [13:38] I seem to remember OS X exposing the actual resolution to OpenGL [13:38] but talking in half-resolution through normal APIs or something [13:39] and that makes us and/or SDL confused? [13:39] (Just speculating, as I remember Diablo 3 reviews talking about very high resolutions) [13:39] Might be [13:39] I don't have a retina screen, but it could be. [13:39] It could also be a case of adding a plist-flag like clone mentioned [13:40] that flag sounds it would only be a good idea when using OpenGL rendering? [13:40] Which btw should preferably be done for the flag that tells OS X that we DON'T need a dedicated GPU anyhow. [13:40] (I.e. the "Sure, Intel graphics is fine" flag) [13:40] For battery reasons. [13:41] do we have anyone with a Mac and a retina display? [13:42] Sir_Burpalot: Did you try to press CMD-I on ScummVM in Finder, and select "open in low res"? [13:43] From http://stackoverflow.com/questions/20426140/how-to-enable-use-low-resolution-on-retina-display-for-an-application-when-shi [13:43] I did just now. Fullscreen is still broken. [13:43] Or have the OS rebuild the plist cache after modifying the plist? [13:43] I get the idea that _IF_ that works, then the plsit change should. [13:43] Oh, the plist cache. [13:43] droid2727: Shouldn't the override in Finder effectively do the same thing? [13:43] somaen (somaen@horisont.pvv.ntnu.no) left irc: Changing host [13:43] somaen (somaen@scummvm/undead/somaen) joined #scummvm. [13:43] #scummvm: mode change '+o somaen' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. [13:44] I thought they were slightly different [13:44] But I don't have anything beyond 10.6, so I can only make guesses here [13:45] Well, 10.10 here, but non-retina. [13:45] I've also noticed that, even though there's pixel doubling, screen transitions in SCI games take considerably longer than they did on a non-Retina display. [13:46] I have, from time to time considered doing a native OS X backend for modern-ish OS X. [13:46] Since that seems to be the place where SDL tears the most at the seems these days. [13:46] That would be very nice. [13:46] (And I've been wanting to have some reason to do something in Cocoa anyhow) [13:47] the screen transition nonsense has always been around [13:47] disable vsync and it will be fine [13:47] Would it have native OS X menus, too? [13:48] In a perfect world where I'd have time, sure, why not. [13:48] these transitions are annoying, yes... [13:49] I too have thought about breaking from SDL... [13:49] I'm not sure what SDK version should be targetted though, although, I'd guess something like 10.7+ atleast, since SDL1 seems to work ok up until 10.6 [13:50] though, I only looked at OpenAL support [13:50] somaen: and then we'd be releasing two versions for Mac? [13:50] Well, what we'd be releasing is entirely another question. [13:51] But OS X is a rather divergent target when you stretch it from 10.2 to 10.10 [13:51] Not as much as you'd think; not for what we use [13:51] Other platforms have all around crappy high-DPI support, but on OS X, I only have to put up with ScummVM not supporting it, so that's comforting. [13:51] The Intel-side of the UB can be built against 10.5 anyhow (well, 10.4 if we want to support the earliest dev machines) [13:52] Although, it isn't really pretty to have a UB where the ppc-binary is SDL1-based, and the Intel-binary is non-SDL-based I guess. [13:52] That might be doable [13:52] Or have a native Mac one be 64-bit only [13:53] and the ppc and x86 ones remain SDL [13:53] it's never pretty, no [13:55] Why is there still a PPC build? If anyone is using a PPC Mac in 2014 as anything other than a museum showpiece, they should expect lots of things not to work. [13:55] Well, diverging depending on x86/x86-64 is a bit weird [13:55] Sir_Burpalot: Please, don't do that. [13:56] You won't be getting any more friends that way. [13:56] Well, the PPC support is probably the reason Dreamweb is broken on OS X. [13:56] Dreamweb is broken on OS X? [13:56] Yes. It crashes after the intro. [13:57] Is this by any chance 1.6.0? [13:57] The problem is not what you think it is. [13:57] oh, right, somebody built it with a broken compiler [13:57] Yes, it is only in the release build. [13:57] A buildbot build of the same branch does not have that issue. [13:58] Well, isn't it because of the PPC support that an outdated compiler is used for the release builds? [13:58] Maybe not. [13:59] Since buildbot has a ppc build too, no [14:00] At some point, though, support for legacy software and hardware really does need to be dropped if it becomes too painful to maintain. Just look at IE6... [14:00] Blaming PPC builds for your woes won't you anywhere [14:00] legacy software? Such as, say, Monkey Island 1? :-) [14:00] We're all about supporting legacy software. [14:01] Sir_Burpalot: The PPC build can be performed completely separately from the intel build [14:01] Oh, another question about Dreamweb. [14:02] a UB is basically just a glued together set of 2/3 binaries [14:02] Why is the bright palette mode turned on by default? [14:02] Does it have something to do with the Amiga version? Because I don't remember Dreamweb ever looking like that on DOS. [14:03] clone2728 (~droid2727@227.sub-174-236-70.myvzw.com) joined #scummvm. [14:03] #scummvm: mode change '+o clone2728' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. [14:04] (The buildbot version of ScummVM doesn't crash, by the way, so thanks.) [14:04] there should be an option to turn off the bright palette [14:05] IIRC, it isn't even a case of a broken compiler, just outdated libs. [14:05] droid2727 (~droid2727@2600:1001:b02e:507e:e863:ca5e:c95e:1065) left irc: Ping timeout: 258 seconds [14:05] SylvainTV (~SylvainTV@ALille-252-1-21-177.w83-192.abo.wanadoo.fr) left irc: Ping timeout: 255 seconds [14:06] wjp: I know there's an option. It's just always puzzled me why it's enabled by default. [14:07] And well, personally I don't really see a big problem with offering two separate OS X builds, one for 10.2-10.6 and one for 10.7+ (or some other split). 10.6 has rosetta, anything after doesn't. The only real problem is that there is nothing preventing that from having to happen AGAIN, which is boring. [14:07] somaen: hm, I think the valgrind backtrace pointed at a compiler bug since it was showing data corruption inside our own data strucctures [14:07] s/valgrind// [14:08] wjp: I vaguely remember doing some tests there, and noticing some discrepancies in the libs [14:08] Which of course might lead to a bug in our code at a later point. [14:08] Action: wjp is unconvinced :-) [14:08] clone2728 (~droid2727@227.sub-174-236-70.myvzw.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 264 seconds [14:09] Oh well. [14:09] Would anyone scream at me if I _DID_ do a native OS X backend? [14:11] assuming it would have feature parity, I guess the big question would be maintenance [14:12] Yeah, I'd be hoping to converge atleast SOME with the iOS-backend [14:13] It would give me a chance to add proper fullscreen support, which SDL1 won't add, ever. [14:17] I remember having some code in for ResidualVM that allowed the iOS backend (lifted from ScummVM) to work in GLES2 too, moving the GL-context from the main-thread to the "gameloop"-thread, I really should take another look at that (and look into allowing both GLES1 and GLES2) for backporting/completion. [14:17] droid2727 (~droid2727@2600:1001:b117:b2ea:7d8a:fbee:821:9935) joined #scummvm. [14:17] #scummvm: mode change '+o droid2727' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. [14:28] Wishmaster (~Wishmaste@dslb-084-061-122-136.084.061.pools.vodafone-ip.de) left irc: Disconnected by services [14:28] Wishmaster (Wishmaster@dslb-084-061-122-136.084.061.pools.vodafone-ip.de) joined #scummvm. 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[17:53] #scummvm: mode change '+v Raziel^' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. [17:54] Space Quest 6 - the waiting game https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Oqr0WTfrNs [17:55] lukaslw (59471472@gateway/web/freenode/ip.89.71.20.114) joined #scummvm. [17:55] #scummvm: mode change '+o lukaslw' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. [17:56] Deledrius_ (~Deledrius@66-215-182-125.dhcp.rvsd.ca.charter.com) left irc: Quit: App.Exit [18:13] Sir_Burpalot (~Shloosh@unaffiliated/shloosh) left irc: Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz& [18:15] Sir_Burpalot (~Shloosh@unaffiliated/shloosh) joined #scummvm. [18:19] m_kiewitz: too bad they didn't award that :-) [18:20] we could patch something in :P [18:20] hell, yeah, please :-D [18:26] ST1 (~ScottT@ppp118-210-182-209.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 272 seconds [18:29] Raziel^ (~Raziel@p4FE83964.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer [18:29] Raziel^ (~Raziel@p4FE83964.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #scummvm. 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[19:30] borosky (~broosky@89-67-235-207.dynamic.chello.pl) joined #scummvm. [19:31] broosky (~broosky@89-67-235-207.dynamic.chello.pl) left irc: Ping timeout: 265 seconds [19:33] broosky (~broosky@89-67-235-207.dynamic.chello.pl) joined #scummvm. [19:34] Harekiet (harekiet@kittens.harekiet.com) left irc: Quit: I brought my pogo stick just to show her a trick [19:34] borosky (~broosky@89-67-235-207.dynamic.chello.pl) left irc: Ping timeout: 255 seconds [19:36] Harekiet (harekiet@kittens.harekiet.com) joined #scummvm. [19:39] SylvainTV (~SylvainTV@ALille-252-1-21-177.w83-192.abo.wanadoo.fr) joined #scummvm. [19:39] #scummvm: mode change '+o SylvainTV' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. [19:41] heh getting major weirdness in Fate of atlantis from GOG. [19:42] Sophia is apparently having knifes thrown at her, yet she's currently on the other side of the screen :P [19:42] knife thrower is talking to thin air :) [19:43] I assume that's just Scumm itself acting up and/or old scummvm version.. [19:45] file a bug [19:45] ok, will do. I have two savegames where it acts up [19:59] RUBICN64 (~Android@2601:7:9480:570:6c30:5511:ac4f:a5c4) joined #scummvm. [20:14] Deledrius_ (~Deledrius@66-215-182-125.dhcp.rvsd.ca.charter.com) joined #scummvm. [20:18] Deledrius (~Deledrius@66-215-182-125.dhcp.rvsd.ca.charter.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 264 seconds [20:19] borosky (~broosky@89-67-235-207.dynamic.chello.pl) joined #scummvm. [20:21] broosky (~broosky@89-67-235-207.dynamic.chello.pl) left irc: Ping timeout: 256 seconds [20:22] RUBICN64 (~Android@2601:7:9480:570:6c30:5511:ac4f:a5c4) left irc: Quit: AndroidIrc Disconnecting [20:24] stekern (~stefan@nblzone-224-141.nblnetworks.fi) joined #scummvm. [20:27] D0SFreak (~D0SFreak@209.222.15.237) left irc: Ping timeout: 255 seconds [20:29] Deledrius_ (~Deledrius@66-215-182-125.dhcp.rvsd.ca.charter.com) left irc: Quit: App.Exit [20:37] Raziel^ (~Raziel@p4FE83964.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) left irc: Quit: AmigaOS 4 (Unregistered copy). Evaluation period is over. Program will now quit. Thank you for using AmigaOS. [20:44] Deledrius (~Deledrius@66-215-182-125.dhcp.rvsd.ca.charter.com) joined #scummvm. [21:03] |Cable| (~cable@43.238.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 256 seconds [21:16] |Cable| (~cable@43.238.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com) joined #scummvm. [21:46] ajax16384 (~User@ip106.net176.n37.ru) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer [22:02] Sir_Burpalot (~Shloosh@unaffiliated/shloosh) left irc: Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz& [22:07] Quatroking (~Quatrokin@ip226-139-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl) left irc: Quit: Leaving [22:23] ny00123 (~ny00123@bzq-79-180-166-34.red.bezeqint.net) left irc: Quit: Leaving [22:27] Littleboy (~littleboy@c-174-62-174-218.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) joined #scummvm. [22:27] #scummvm: mode change '+o Littleboy' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. [22:28] _marc` (~marc@p2003004608309FFEB9917482B7C56AAD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) left irc: Quit: _marc` [22:31] D0SFreak (~D0SFreak@108.61.57.214) joined #scummvm. [22:45] Sir_Burpalot (~Shloosh@unaffiliated/shloosh) joined #scummvm. [22:49] Cheeseness (~cheesenes@ppp14-2-136-171.lns20.hba1.internode.on.net) joined #scummvm. [22:52] kurtwr (~kurtwr@c-98-208-17-184.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) left irc: [22:57] kurtwr (~kurtwr@c-98-208-17-184.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #scummvm. [23:12] m_kiewitz (~m_kiewitz@kons-4d03da55.pool.mediaWays.net) left irc: Quit: technology isn't intrinsically good or evil. It's how it's used. Like the Death Ray. [23:12] qvist (~qvist@delta.ipv7.se) left irc: Ping timeout: 264 seconds [23:12] qvist (~qvist@delta.ipv7.se) joined #scummvm. [23:12] #scummvm: mode change '+v qvist' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. [23:14] WooShell (woo@ipbcc0be82.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) left irc: Quit: Walking upside down in the sky, between the satellites passing by. Gliding along the black rainbow, I fly away with my shadow. Scratching the moon like a DJ, the night follows its odyssey. [23:24] SylvainTV (~SylvainTV@ALille-252-1-21-177.w83-192.abo.wanadoo.fr) left irc: Ping timeout: 255 seconds [23:31] SylvainTV (~SylvainTV@ALille-252-1-21-177.w83-192.abo.wanadoo.fr) joined #scummvm. [23:31] #scummvm: mode change '+o SylvainTV' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. [23:45] waltervn (~waltervn@541B5492.cm-5-4b.dynamic.ziggo.nl) left irc: Quit: Ik ga weg [23:46] Javacat (~Javacat@unaffiliated/javacat) joined #scummvm. [23:58] droid2727 (~droid2727@2600:1001:b117:b2ea:7d8a:fbee:821:9935) left irc: Ping timeout: 258 seconds [00:00] --- Fri Nov 21 2014