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[00:16] <GitHub84> [scummvm] bluegr pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/fbqE9g
[00:16] <GitHub84> scummvm/master 750d728 Filippos Karapetis: ZVISION: Properly skip commented out puzzle criteria - fixes bug #6776...
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[04:11] <P2E> maybe the intellectual aspect of this visual might interest a few people: http://youtu.be/xjnMGBQRRkw
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[04:51] <DrMcCoy> P2E: Not exactly codec-friendly visuals
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[05:17] <P2E> DrMcCoy: yeah, not entirely =\
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[06:16] <waltervn> morning
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[06:18] <fuzzie> phft
[06:19] <fuzzie> morning, waltervn :)

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[08:59] <chrilith|work> Hi
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[09:07] <Strangerke|work> hi guys
[09:15] <chrilith|work> Hi Strangerke|work
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[09:39] <Strangerke|work> is Mobygames down for me only?
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[09:46] <CruX|> Strangerke|work: works for me
[09:48] <Strangerke|work> I receive a page telling "You have reached a domain that is pending ICANN verification."
[09:48] <TMM> Strangerke|work, I get the same
[09:52] <CruX|> http://www.mobygames.com/ ?
[09:53] <chrilith|work> Works for me
[09:54] <Strangerke|work> yes, this link... it's broken here. Really weird behavior
[09:54] <wjp> not really
[09:55] <wjp> a registrar would very likely handle this redirect via DNS, and DNS updates have delays
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[10:00] <Strangerke|work> Bon

[10:00] <Strangerke|work> oups, wrong window.
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[13:40] <PyS60> Is there AnotherGuest? Need help in porting app for symbian.
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[13:58] <PyS60> Is there symbian developers?
[14:02] <joostp> symbian still exists?
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[14:03] <_sev|work> PyS60: the guy who is working on that is very seldom on IRC
[14:04] <_sev|work> PyS60: what is your question?
[14:09] <enthusi> Hi
[14:09] <enthusi> no Apple II email yet :)
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[14:14] <PyS60> _sev|work: want port of this app http://warmplace.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=3548
[14:14] <chrilith|work> Hi joostp, _sev
[14:15] <_sev|work> PyS60: port to what platform?
[14:15] <_sev|work> chrilith|work: yo
[14:15] <PyS60> S60v3
[14:15] <enthusi> _sev|work: I meant you about the Apple AGI 6502-stuff :)
[14:16] <_sev|work> enthusi: ah, right. Need to assemble that and send to you. I just forgot about it
[14:16] <PyS60> _sev|work: want SunVox for S60v3
[14:19] <_sev|work> PyS60: I don't quite understand, let's switch to PM
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[14:25] <PyS60> _sev|wosk: a
[14:26] <joostp> hi chrilith|work
[14:53] <PyS60> _sev|work: what think?
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[15:58] <Vanfanel> Hi, I'm implementing yet another graphics backend: direct native Raspberry Pi Dispmanx. It uses 10% of the CPU to play Monkey Island EGA, where the GLES solution (still the most stardard solution across ARM boards) uses 30%.
[15:58] <enthusi> nice!
[16:00] <Vanfanel> It's more or less done and works really great, but I have some questions: for example, is there a surface in surface-sdl class where each frame is "complete" to be uploaded to the native API? For now, I'm using _hwscreen, but I would like to know if there's something "complete" previously, even if it's 8bpp as the Pi supports 8bpp natively.
[16:00] <Vanfanel> I'm asking about the surface-sdl class because that's what I'm basing the dispmanx backend on.
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[16:02] <enthusi> cant help there, sorry
[16:04] <Vanfanel> enthusi: don't worry, I hope some dev reads me and gives me a hand :)
[16:04] <Vanfanel> it's alright as it's now, anyway
[16:04] <wjp> there is no such thing as a "complete" frame in general
[16:05] <Vanfanel> wjp: how many times have we discussed the same thing? you have told me that so many times that you must think I'm stupid :D
[16:06] <Vanfanel> wjp: ok, forget the terms. _hwscreen has "complete" frames when UpdateScreen() is called, doesn't it?
[16:10] <somaen> Do you HAVE to upload a complete frame though?
[16:10] <somaen> Is there no possibility of doing sub-updates (and thus saving cycles)?
[16:11] <enthusi> isnt the GPU doing that part anyway and not caring at all?
[16:11] <somaen> what part?
[16:11] <enthusi> blitting?
[16:12] <somaen> Well there is the presumed additional memcpys anyhow though.
[16:12] <somaen> And the potentially wasted updates when nothing has changed.
[16:12] <enthusi> is there a memcpy in GLES? and sorry for spamming
[16:13] <enthusi> there is none i.e. when you code in CUDA
[16:13] <somaen> This was the non-GLES-stuff...
[16:13] <enthusi> ah, ok
[16:13] <enthusi> thanks
[16:13] <somaen> And anyhow, if you do a texture update, you have a memcpy
[16:13] <somaen> from RAM to VRAM
[16:13] <somaen> which might be the same chip of course.
[16:23] <Vanfanel> somaen: with this dispmanx API, I have a DMA-copy function from RAM to VRAM that uses no CPU at all.
[16:24] <somaen> How fast is it though?
[16:25] <Vanfanel> How fast? what do you mean? It's instant, doesn't use any CPU cycles for the copy
[16:25] <somaen> Well, nothing takes 0 time, unless it's a matter of repurposing memory to VRAM.
[16:26] <Vanfanel> the Rpi doesn't really have VRAM as such :P
[16:26] <Vanfanel> it uses RAM as VRAM as instructed to
[16:26] <enthusi> its shared mem anyway
[16:26] <somaen> Yeah, so a trivial instruction then.
[16:26] <Vanfanel> no idea how it works internally anyway...
[16:26] <somaen> But does that mark that memory as VRAM?
[16:26] <somaen> So, any additional writes to that array will show up on screen?
[16:27] <Vanfanel> somaen: yes, additional writes to that given address shows up on screen
[16:27] <Vanfanel> I've also implemented a double-buffer method and swap buffers on vsync :D
[16:27] <Vanfanel> so there's no tearing at all
[16:27] <somaen> Ah, so you effectively can create a frame buffer like that
[16:28] <Vanfanel> yes, in fact I created two of them
[16:28] <Vanfanel> it also does hardware scaling
[16:28] <Vanfanel> all in all, it's perfect
[16:29] <Vanfanel> I simply upload, let's say, a 320x200 SDL_Surface->pixels array
[16:29] <wjp> swap buffers? How do you handle that?
[16:29] <wjp> i.e., how do you prevent the two buffers from getting out of sync?
[16:29] <enthusi> wjp: just tell the GPU which adress to display
[16:30] <Vanfanel> wjp: when I UpdateScreen(), I simply change the buffer that we're writtin to next time
[16:30] <wjp> so then you copy the full screen?
[16:30] <Vanfanel> or, for the next vsync period if you want
[16:30] <wjp> or don't allow partial updates?
[16:30] <Vanfanel> yes, well, the whole screen is only 320x200 in lucas games... and 640x480 in neverhood for example
[16:31] <Vanfanel> and the copy is made with a function that uses DMA
[16:31] <Vanfanel> so for example Neverhood just uses a mere 15% of the CPU while you play :D
[16:31] <Vanfanel> on a lowly Pi!
[16:31] <Vanfanel> 700MHz ArmV6 poor man's board :D
[16:31] <wjp> * This method could be called very often by engines. Backends are hence
[16:31] <wjp> * supposed to only perform any redrawing if it is necessary, and otherwise
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[16:32] <wjp> (this is updateScreen() )
[16:32] <wjp> it may be called hundreds of times per second in some scenes in some engines
[16:33] <wjp> if that isn't a problem, then cool
[16:33] <enthusi> wjp: the point would be if any other method would work better on the rpi
[16:34] <Vanfanel> wjp: doesn't seem to be a problem. GOB's WEEN is such a updateScreen() hammerer, and there's no problem
[16:34] <Vanfanel> it uses a mere 10% for the Amiga version
[16:34] <Vanfanel> wjp: anyway, I'm open to know where could my fullscreen updates fit better
[16:35] <Vanfanel> I have been wanting to know since forever
[16:35] <Vanfanel> this solution is fine for me anyway
[16:35] <PyS60> Is there online symbiam developes?
[16:36] <somaen> Eh, what?
[16:36] <Vanfanel> somaen: that what was about my comments?
[16:37] <PyS60> Need help in porting SDL based app fos S60v3!
[16:37] <somaen> No, PyS60s question.
[16:38] <Vanfanel> wjp: and as far as I know, updateScreen() is where synchronous texture updates take place on the OpenGL backend, too, so I'm not the only one who thought it was the place...
[16:38] <wjp> I'm very confused about what you're asking
[16:39] <somaen> updateScreen() is supposed to do exactly what is needed to get the screen to show the correct stuff, and no more.
[16:39] <somaen> With the added implication of doing as little as possible to do so.
[16:40] <PyS60> Can some give contacts of AnotherGuest?
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[16:41] <Vanfanel> sorry, I disconnected...
[16:41] <Vanfanel> any answers to my questions I may have missed?
[16:42] <somaen> No.
[16:42] <Vanfanel> somaen: ok, thanks
[16:42] <somaen> There are btw logs available to answer that exact question. (Did I miss anything)
[16:42] <Vanfanel> somaen: do you mean there are logs to see if someone answered while I was offline?
[16:43] <Vanfanel> ah, ok
[16:43] <somaen> Everything in this channel is logged
[16:43] <somaen> see topic
[16:43] <Vanfanel> ok,ok, thanks
[16:43] <somaen> So, no need to call the NSA to find your missing chat :P
[16:43] <Vanfanel> you're always helping me with the most obvious things :D
[16:43] <somaen> Those are the easiest things to fix.
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[17:36] <WooShell> meow =^.^=
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[17:45] <eriktorbjorn> Well, that's a bit disappointing: They finally added more LucasArts games to GOG, but this time around it's all Star Wars games.
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[17:48] <droid2727> eriktorbjorn: they're some good ones at least!
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[17:48] <eriktorbjorn> droid2727: So I've heard. But these are still not the droids I'm looking for.
[17:50] <eriktorbjorn> Then again, I have a feeling that if they do add more of the LucasArts adventures, it'll probably be ones I already have. Unless they manage to get some of the more obscure versions.
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[18:27] <GitHub15> [scummvm] eriktorbjorn pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/qji2Uw

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[18:28] <eriktorbjorn> I don't understand all the new bug statuses, but I assume I should set it to closed-fixed.
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[18:37] <syke> hi m_kiewitz
[18:37] <m_kiewitz> hi syke
[18:38] <syke> I meant to ask yesterday -- how is your health?
[18:38] <syke> it's hard to tell from just text, but it seems like you're in better spirits than a few years ago
[18:39] <chrilith> Hum, don't remember, how do I open ScummVM source code in Xcode?
[18:45] <m_kiewitz> syke: well i changed to a better (but still inofficial) medication 1 1/2 years ago and everything's way better now. it's just like back then when i got the trial medication
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[18:46] <syke> m_kiewitz: that's great! :)
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[18:47] <m_kiewitz> but on the other hand i have to fight my medical insurance atm, because they don't want to pay it anymore. they literally say "well, everything's stable now, so you could try the regular medication again"
[18:47] <m_kiewitz> which didn't work back then, so there is no reason why it should work now
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[18:48] <m_kiewitz> it seems that i will go to court in 1 or 2 weeks, oh well. What's even more disgusting is that they are also doing this to parents, where their child has the same condition as I have. and I'm talking about 1 or 2 year olds
[18:49] <Vanfanel> which remembers me why, when liberals try to privatice our public healthcare system here in Spain, I will die trying to kill them.
[18:49] <m_kiewitz> health insurance wrote one parent: "yes, we know it works and has no side effects, but we won't pay for it" (lol)
[18:50] <m_kiewitz> well I'm actually forced to have public healthcare, that makes the whole situation (also for those parents) even more crazy. I'm forced to pay fees and I'm also effectively forced to buy my own medication
[18:51] <syke> ugh, that is terrible
[18:51] <syke> still, I'm glad you have good enough health to be able to fight in court in the first place
[18:51] <m_kiewitz> well, compared to back then at least I'm fine now. that's what's most important
[18:51] <syke> indeed
[18:51] <syke> do you have a PS4 or Vita yet?
[18:52] <m_kiewitz> the whole situation is insane. the medication was found 15 years ago and is still not approved. and the company, that is behind it, takes as much as time as possible. i guess it's simply too cheap
[18:52] <m_kiewitz> ps4 or vita, no. but I own a Wii U :P
[18:53] <m_kiewitz> you don't?
[18:53] <m_kiewitz> i mean i guess you own a PS4 already, but no Wii U
[18:54] <syke> yea, we got a PS4 and a Vita
[18:54] <m_kiewitz> nice, i think i will finally get a 3DS next month
[18:54] <syke> no Wii U, one of my friends at NoA told me there will be a "new" Wii U that fixes their terrible hardware decisions in a year or so
[18:55] <syke> the New 3DS hardware is pretty neat, but that right thumbstick is fucking terrible
[18:55] <m_kiewitz> oh my gosh, please no. that new "new 3DS" is also insane enough
[18:55] <m_kiewitz> i mean yeah it's nice, but the name is crazy
[18:55] <m_kiewitz> "You own a new 3DS?" - "yeah" - "but that's just a regular 3DS, not a new 3DS"
[18:55] <syke> well, the good news is that NoJ saw that Sony's approach to actually listening to devs when developing hardware worked out well
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[18:55] <syke> so they're folding in feedback they should have in the first place
[18:56] <syke> the bad news is that all the chumps (N fans) who bought early will have degraded experiences
[18:56] <m_kiewitz> but they really want to release a hardware revision? Nintendo never did that before
[18:56] <m_kiewitz> i mean only for handhelds, not for consoles
[18:56] <syke> yea, the name is stupid. they should have called it "Pro" or something
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[18:56] <m_kiewitz> their Wii U Pro controller is actually the best controller ever
[18:57] <m_kiewitz> i love it
[18:57] <syke> yea, it looked pretty good
[18:57] <syke> ... given it's a copy of a tried and true older design ;)
[18:57] <m_kiewitz> and their software releases were really awesome last year. mario kart 8 with rock solid 60 fps
[18:57] <syke> eh
[18:58] <syke> most people's TVs don't have the motion resolution to do 1080p @ 30hz, never mind 720p @ 60hz
[18:58] <m_kiewitz> ?
[18:58] <syke> 60hz is really for people like me who tune their TV settings and get the colors, etc calibrated
[18:59] <syke> a lot of LCD TVs have a motion resolution of ~300 lines
[18:59] <syke> you can bump that up by turning off some image (over-)processing features
[18:59] <syke> (and reduce latency)
[18:59] <m_kiewitz> i did that, those processing features introduce latency, yeah.
[19:00] <syke> but unless the controller sample rate is also 60hz, and the input latency is very low
[19:00] <syke> then it looks nice but doesn't give an edge
[19:00] <m_kiewitz> that's what they did right. the wii u gamepad is also 60 fps, no latency. most of the time it's actually faster than the TV :P
[19:00] <syke> for non-VR, I'd rather have 30hz and better resolution, shaders, lighting, etc
[19:00] <syke> heh
[19:01] <syke> we do Remote Play on the VIta, and it works pretty good a lot of the time on the local wifi
[19:01] <syke> I was able to play Destiny on the day of release, even though I was at CppCon in Seattle ;)
[19:01] <m_kiewitz> yes, but nowhere close to that gamepad. but well it's wifi
[19:02] <syke> yea
[19:02] <syke> I'm really skeptical of the whole PS Now thing, some of those games require twitch reflexes and will be impossible
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[19:02] <m_kiewitz> I hope that they are going to release the Fatal Frame Wii U game in Europe + US at some point
[19:02] <syke> a friend and I tried doing multiplayer Spelunky using the new SharePlay feature
[19:02] <syke> and it worked really well
[19:03] <syke> but my crappy ISP (AT&T Uverse) had latency spikes, and that made the platforming nearly impossible
[19:03] <m_kiewitz> not only that, but I fear that at some point all games will be on servers a la PS Now, which would remove the ability to actually own games
[19:03] <syke> maybe
[19:04] <m_kiewitz> it would be nice for the publisher of course, but for the customer it would suck
[19:04] <syke> I think there are major supply chain issues for PS3 hardware parts coming up, and they are trying to keep that content alive regardless
[19:04] <m_kiewitz> if everyone did this, i would actually quit gaming. I mean i would do retro gaming exclusively
[19:04] <syke> well
[19:04] <syke> the good news is that they *can't* do that for VR, the latency would kill it in the cradle ;)
[19:04] <m_kiewitz> that's also one thing that Nintendo solved perfectly. Wii U is 100% backward compatible. It even plays gamecube games using homebrew
[19:05] <syke> yea, that's pretty cool
[19:05] <syke> but it comes at the cost of very incremental hardware upgrades
[19:05] <m_kiewitz> well, not yet. I guess at some point internet would be fast enough
[19:05] <syke> they still have that damned tiered memory model, which developers hate
[19:05] <m_kiewitz> sure, but i personally love it. I even bought quite a few Wii games after buying the Wii U
[19:05] <m_kiewitz> on PS4 I would have lost everything, especially digital games
[19:06] <syke> well, not everything -- quite a few first-party titles were cross-buy retroactively
[19:06] <syke> but I understand where you're coming from
[19:06] <syke> don't worry, people already havea fork of qemu running some PS3 games ;)
[19:06] <m_kiewitz> yeah, back then on PS2 Sony did it perfectly. Then they did the same for PS3 at first, but then butchered it for Europe even for PS3 release
[19:07] <syke> well, PS2 was MIPS -- same as PS1
[19:07] <m_kiewitz> and now they don't even try it. There is not even PS1 software emulation on PS4
[19:07] <syke> the inital COGS on PS3 was ridiculous
[19:07] <m_kiewitz> well it was their idea to use a $350 bluray drive
[19:07] <syke> well, the introduction of PS1 and PS2 games was to have a way to draw down new content over time and supplement with older content
[19:08] <syke> they need gamers buying PS4-developed titles on PS4 so those devs can make their ROI
[19:08] <m_kiewitz> PS2 hardware compatibility was only around $27 and they removed only 1 chip for the European PS3. At the same time PS3 in Europe was the most expensive one
[19:08] <syke> heh
[19:08] <syke> fair enough, but if they invested in the software emulator a bit more, it would match the open source emulator
[19:09] <syke> the hardware was a stopgap while they figured out reliable software emulatio
[19:09] <m_kiewitz> well, i think they used software emulation exclusively on PS3 for PS1 games, didn't they? It shouldn't be that difficult to port it to PS4
[19:09] <syke> Vita will finally get PS2 emulation this year, so I hear
[19:09] <m_kiewitz> and those downloadable PS2 games on PS3 are also using software emulation
[19:09] <m_kiewitz> which means it could have been ported already
[19:10] <syke> the PS1 games on PS3 are running in a PSP emulator, actually. MIPS -> PPC dynamic recompiler
[19:10] <m_kiewitz> interesting
[19:10] <syke> the PS2 emulator is more complicated -- it does use the SPUs and stuff for audio
[19:10] <syke> it's so dumb they don't upscale, though
[19:10] <m_kiewitz> yes that's a given
[19:11] <syke> depending on how modular their dynarec engine is, porting to x86-64 might be easy?
[19:11] <m_kiewitz> have you seen that homebrew DS emulator, that renders at a higher resolution? games look really great
[19:11] <syke> I have! it does look pretty awesome
[19:12] <syke> when I buy PS1 games for PS3/Vita, I end up playing them on my MacBOok Air with DualShock 4
[19:12] <m_kiewitz> it's insane how much detail is available for those games
[19:12] <syke> since the open source emulators look so much better
[19:12] <m_kiewitz> some Wii games also look really really great in dolphin when rendered at 1080p or even higher
[19:12] <syke> yea, it's amazing what even minor upscaling + AA can do
[19:12] <syke> never mind texture filtering
[19:12] <syke> yea
[19:12] <m_kiewitz> well yeah, i can understand why those companies do that. They would introduce all sorts of issues and that's not acceptable for most customers
[19:13] <syke> I recently re-played hald of Zack & Wiki on Dolphin
[19:13] <m_kiewitz> I loved Zack & Wiki, it's such a great game
[19:13] <syke> DOlphin's performance is taking huge leaps lately, which is awesome
[19:13] <syke> some female dev who's new
[19:13] <m_kiewitz> like an old school adventure but with motion controls and animu graphics :P
[19:13] <syke> yea
[19:14] <syke> after the Okami port to PS3, I was hoping they'd port Zack&Wiki as well
[19:14] <m_kiewitz> have you ever played Endless Ocean 1 or 2?
[19:14] <m_kiewitz> Zack & Wiki sold like crap :(
[19:14] <syke> no, my friend got it (who I play games with every week) as a "chill" game
[19:14] <syke> technically, so did Okami ;)
[19:15] <m_kiewitz> sure, but I think Zack & Wiki sold even worse. Not sure about that though
[19:15] <syke> I'm sure it did. At least Okami had prior reviews that were great, which they put in al lthe marketing material
[19:15] <m_kiewitz> it was such a weird game and it didn't really make sense to make such a game from a financial standpoint
[19:16] <m_kiewitz> it's sort of like ZombiU for the Wii U. I also love that game. It's actual old school survival horror
[19:16] <syke> well, it's nice to see people besides Sony funding weird games
[19:16] <syke> well
[19:16] <m_kiewitz> well, I got my Bayonetta 2 fix last year thanks to Nintendo
[19:16] <m_kiewitz> it also sold like crap, but it made me happy :P
[19:16] <syke> the good thing about ZombiU and some of the XBO 3rd party launch titles is that now exclusivity deals are dying
[19:17] <m_kiewitz> have you played ZombiU?
[19:17] <syke> no, but I heard it was good
[19:17] <m_kiewitz> at launch it was quite buggy (and I didn't buy it back then)
[19:17] <m_kiewitz> well it's an Ubisoft game...
[19:17] <syke> does the WiiU upscale GameCube or Wii games?
[19:17] <syke> ugh, Ubisoft. they are getting away with murder
[19:17] <m_kiewitz> it doesn't render, but the output of Wii U is always 1080p
[19:17] <syke> they even fucked up Just Dance 2015, which is ridiculous
[19:17] <syke> even after they patched it, it has performance problems
[19:18] <m_kiewitz> they fucked up TETRIS. TETRIS!!!
[19:18] <m_kiewitz> i mean wow
[19:18] <syke> yea, I think they used the same codebase as Just Dance 2015
[19:18] <syke> which has a bunch of network/social background threads
[19:18] <m_kiewitz> Wii U is doing 2x 480p for those games and adds 60 black lines as well. Which is actually the best way to do it without rendering at a higher resolution
[19:18] <syke> nice!
[19:19] <syke> yea, I like even scaling if upscaling can't be done
[19:19] <m_kiewitz> tetris had some issues for people having more than 100 friends or something like that. it's really embarassing. Have you seen the Assassin's Creed Unity faces?
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[19:19] <syke> (one of the reasons I hate PS1 games on Vita)
[19:19] <syke> I did
[19:19] <m_kiewitz> heh
[19:19] <syke> I'm done with Ubisoft for AAA titles at this point
[19:20] <m_kiewitz> sure, but I guess they will still sell well
[19:20] <syke> my husband is really liking Wath DOgs, but we waited a year from purchase for most of the bugs toe get ironed out
[19:20] <m_kiewitz> Bethesda managed to do the same especially on PS3
[19:20] <syke> and Gearbox
[19:20] <m_kiewitz> Skyrim managed to do 0 fps sometimes on PS3
[19:20] <m_kiewitz> 0, zero, nada
[19:20] <m_kiewitz> People were upset with Fallout 3 performance.... and then bought New Vegas
[19:21] <m_kiewitz> they were then upset with New Vegas performance and glitches... and then bought Skyrim
[19:21] <m_kiewitz> and so on
[19:21] <m_kiewitz> i guess i will buy WatchDogs for Wii U at some point.
[19:22] <m_kiewitz> it's actually a well made port, but Ubisoft not only released it 6 months after all the other versions, but they also did literally no marketing
[19:22] <m_kiewitz> there weren't even official screenshots
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[19:22] <m_kiewitz> no trailer, nothing
[19:22] <syke> Sony is a lot of the blame here -- they relax their TC standards wayyy too much
[19:22] <syke> and understaff their 3rd party dev support
[19:23] <m_kiewitz> yes, I got used to games always freezing and crashing etc. and now I'm used to proper quality again thanks to Wii U
[19:23] <syke> heh
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[19:23] <m_kiewitz> Nintendo manages to create games with rock solid framerates and no patches. I mean they do patches, but they for example added more control methods to Pikmin 3 and such
[19:23] <syke> if N is purposefully pursuing better quality, that might actualyl be a good strategy for them
[19:23] <m_kiewitz> their games are not a broken mess at release
[19:24] <syke> well, first-party Sony games are typically very good quality
[19:24] <syke> ... other than DriveClub
[19:24] <m_kiewitz> well, Uncharted 3 was pretty bad
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[19:24] <m_kiewitz> i bought it months after release and there were still issues in single player and of course multiplayer
[19:24] <syke> I never did the multiplayer, so I can't comment on that, but the game itself was pretty good quality
[19:25] <m_kiewitz> it's not as bad as most other developers, but it's not that great
[19:25] <syke> I miss the co-op adventure modes from U2, like we played together
[19:25] <m_kiewitz> during that horse sequence, i mean when it starts, i had all sorts of glitches
[19:25] <syke> heh, I don't remember at this point
[19:25] <m_kiewitz> sometimes the cutscene didn't trigger. sometimes the level didn't load and so on
[19:25] <syke> Knack was a good example of good quality, but half-finished design
[19:26] <m_kiewitz> oh btw. Little Big Planet 3 is also a big hot mess
[19:26] <m_kiewitz> gamebreaking glitches and so on
[19:26] <syke> that was probably my biggest disappointment on PS4 so far. such great possibilities, but it looked like they wasted their budget on cinematic animators and voice acting
[19:27] <syke> yea, I pre-ordered but haven't tried it yet
[19:27] <m_kiewitz> yes
[19:27] <syke> LBP Vita was not *totally* broken, but very much so
[19:27] <m_kiewitz> well i got turned off by the physics and controls of LBP1
[19:27] <syke> there is HUGE input lag in the minigames that use the touch screen
[19:27] <syke> they never fixed it
[19:28] <m_kiewitz> On PS3 Sony also doesn't seem to verify that games are able to handle X/O changes for Asian PS3s
[19:28] <syke> about half of the levels/characters look like direct texture imports from the PSP version, but the camera zooms right in on them
[19:28] <syke> BUT
[19:28] <syke> I still enjoyed the game, and the community levels
[19:28] <syke> those creation tools are unparalleled and there are some crazy amazing designers out there
[19:29] <m_kiewitz> I own an Asian PS3 and for example that one James Bond game is unbeatable. A minigame uses part X/O mapped buttons, part hardcoded buttons.
[19:29] <syke> ouch
[19:29] <m_kiewitz> yes, Red Dead Redemption had similar problems, but at least those were fixed
[19:29] <syke> my friend who has a game out on PS4/PS3/VIta right now said that Sony is so light on actual cert testing now
[19:30] <syke> you used to get a decent QA pass by their internal testers
[19:30] <syke> now it's just nit picky text and translation stuff
[19:30] <m_kiewitz> I don't know why Sony doesn't simply at least offer a switch for those buttons. PS3 internally definitely has a switch, custom firmware showed that
[19:31] <syke> have you done CFW? I've been thinking about it, if it's switchable/hideable from PSN
[19:31] <m_kiewitz> i don't even know why they changed the button behaviour between Asia + Europe/US
[19:31] <m_kiewitz> no, i don't. but i read about it
[19:32] <m_kiewitz> i think the firmware always contacts sony servers. PS3 even remembers stuff in case it can't connect and then posts that data later when it's possible again
[19:32] <m_kiewitz> That's why Sony was able to identify CFW users + pirates
[19:33] <m_kiewitz> i think the later CFWs removed those "features"
[19:34] <m_kiewitz> how many games do you have in your backlog?
[19:35] <m_kiewitz> last time I checked your trophy list, there were tons of 0% games in it
[19:39] <syke> some games were free for Plus, I try them and then delete them
[19:39] <m_kiewitz> ah that explains it
[19:39] <syke> I don't keep track of the backlog
[19:39] <syke> also, you used to have to start a game just to see if it had patches
[19:39] <m_kiewitz> btw. have you seen the latest Xenoblade Chronicles trailer? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvpNXhzscjQ
[19:39] <syke> they quietly added a Check for Updates option in the triangle menu
[19:40] <m_kiewitz> ah i never knew that
[19:40] <syke> it wasn't in the change list -- i don't know why, it's a great feature!
[19:40] <m_kiewitz> nice, i think i started the last few games only to check for patches
[19:40] <syke> eh, Xenoblade isn't my kind of thing
[19:40] <syke> PLus is *supposed* to auto-download patches, but it only does it for the last 5 games you played
[19:41] <m_kiewitz> at least appreciate the graphics :P
[19:41] <syke> it is pretty ;)
[19:41] <syke> I do wish they'd replace the Netfront browser with their custom webkit build they use for the store
[19:41] <m_kiewitz> can't wait for it. it was one of the reasons why I bought a Wii U
[19:41] <syke> that would be swell
[19:43] <syke> then again, the Store app on the PS3 leaks graphics contexts like fucking crazy
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[19:44] <syke> literally 50% of my Store app interactions results in a crash of the app
[19:44] <syke> or a hard lock on the PS3
[19:44] <m_kiewitz> yeah, the PS3 store is a mess
[19:44] <m_kiewitz> despite them updating it every few weeks or so
[19:44] <syke> it is pretty cool they have a shared HTML5 codebase between PS3 and PS4 for the Store, but the PS3 webkit renderer needs a little more work
[19:45] <syke> oh well
[19:45] <syke> what are you working on these days, scummvm-wise
[19:45] <syke> ?
[19:45] <m_kiewitz> atm not much. i would really like to improve the speed throttler
[19:46] <m_kiewitz> there are some issues for example in qfg3 combat is way too fast
[19:47] <syke> oh?
[19:47] <syke> I haven't tried qfg3 on scummvm yet
[19:47] <m_kiewitz> because of our current speed throttler
[19:47] <m_kiewitz> which actually works pretty nicely most of the time, but there are those special cases, where it doesn't
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[19:47] <m_kiewitz> qfg3 uses a tight inner loop for the battle, where the throttler is not triggered
[19:48] <m_kiewitz> and there are a few other issues. for example lsl3 detects "us" as a very slow machine
[19:48] <m_kiewitz> and that's why points won't increment one by one, but instead get changed immediately. the scripts simply think that we are too slow
[19:49] <syke> interesting
[19:49] <syke> do you have any ideas on how to approach the fix?
[19:49] <m_kiewitz> in freddy pharkas the intro zoom effect isn't showing, because in that case sierra used some tight loop ... again ... which is why we display all zoom levels within a few milliseconds
[19:49] <PyS60> Need symbian developer contact!
[19:49] <wjp> any concrete plans? Modelling instruction/kernel function executing time somehow?
[19:50] <m_kiewitz> well, we currently try to detect "a frame" and then delay a bit of time. but we don't delay according to certain expensive graphics operation and we also don't delay according to how many opcodes were executed
[19:50] <m_kiewitz> s/operation/operations
[19:51] <m_kiewitz> in theory delaying the games that way should fix those issues, but it's a major change
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[20:07] <m_kiewitz> syke: what was done in that regard in FreeSCI?
[20:07] <syke> or just delay on a per-opcode basis
[20:07] <syke> Lars or Christoph could answer that, I can't
[20:07] <syke> but
[20:07] <syke> other t han LSL3, the games you are talking about weren't playable in FreeSCI
[20:08] <syke> I forget how they fixed the LSL3 issue with working out in the gym, but it was a similar kind of thing
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[21:22] <Lightkey> https://twitter.com/romero/status/555857253212123137
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[21:26] <[md5]> Lightkey: nice thread
[21:26] <[md5]> a lot of cool people in there
[21:27] <[md5]> John Romero, George Broussard, Ron Gilbert
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[22:19] <wjp> If x is a sint64, does (sint32)x == x correctly check if x fits in a signed 32 bit int, or can this trigger undefined (or unexpected) behaviour with integer conversion rules?
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[22:20] <GitHub108> [scummvm] bluegr pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/XDnidg
[22:20] <GitHub108> scummvm/master 1d6a807 Filippos Karapetis: ZVISION: Adapt confirmation dialogs for non-English versions
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[22:20] <madmoose> wjp: It's UB if the value doesn't fit in an sint32.
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[22:21] <wjp> I'm not sure about that
[22:22] <wjp> it appears to be implementation-defined, which is not the same, isn't it?
[22:22] <madmoose> I'm fairly certain :)
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[22:23] <madmoose> Although I may just have filed it under "don't do that"
[22:23] <wjp> but even if it were undefined, is the result still a sint32? Because then it would still work
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[22:23] <wjp> (FWIW, it compiles correctly here, but that doesn't mean much of course)
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[22:34] <GitHub196> [scummvm] bluegr pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/U9HbLA
[22:34] <GitHub196> scummvm/master 0776709 Filippos Karapetis: ZVISION: Do not process cheat codes while in the game menus...
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[22:43] <GitHub85> [scummvm] eriktorbjorn pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/N9Y_kQ

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[22:45] <madmoose> wjp: I think I may just have gotten to scared by integer UB...
[22:50] <madmoose> wjp: "4.7.3: If the destination type is signed, the value is unchanged if it can be represented in the destination type; otherwise, the value is implementation-defined."
[22:52] <LordHoto> That's IB not UB though :-P
[22:52] <madmoose> LordHoto: Yes, I was correcting myself :P
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[23:02] <taigask> hello
[23:03] <taigask> scummvm gives me an error when i try to run the czech version of kyrandia. what's with that?
[23:06] <taigask> it also said ishould tell you this: {"GEMCUT.EMC", 0, "20f876423f4caa20f5de6b4fc5dfafeb", 6686}, {"BEAD.CPS", 0, "0bfcb978aca1ba1123704d6e0373438c", 738},
[23:07] <LordHoto> Where did you find that translation?
[23:08] <taigask> should i give you link?
[23:08] <LordHoto> Well, if it's a complete download: no. If it's a patch against a regular release: yes.
[23:08] <LordHoto> In the former case we won't support it anyway.
[23:08] <taigask> it's just files you're supposed to overwrite the originals with
[23:10] <LordHoto> That includes the executable, right?
[23:10] <LordHoto> I am pretty sure that this version of "patch" is kind of fishy.
[23:10] <taigask> http://cestiny.idnes.cz/legend-of-kyrandia-035-/Hry.aspx?c=A000403_67913_bw-cestiny-hry_bw
[23:12] <taigask> it works in dosbox running normally and it also works when i overwrite those 2 files with the originals, albeit with some of the text still in english
[23:13] <somaen> Such "patches" are indeed a bit fishy.
[23:13] <somaen> Not the worst kind of thing though, as you presumably still need the original game data to play, but still not acceptable.
[23:15] <somaen> If it had been a proper patch, i.e. only containing changes and some way of inserting them, then that is probably quite fine.
[23:15] <somaen> But, that web page breaks horribly in google translate, what exactly is that? A fan translation?
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[23:17] <LordHoto> It must be a fan translation.
[23:17] <LordHoto> taigask: What version of Kyrandia do you use when replacing the files?
[23:17] <taigask> it's from the editor in chief of the magazine "Hrej!" which means play so yes, a fan translation
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[23:21] <taigask> sorry idk how to check the version but it's dos/floppy/extracted
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[23:23] <LordHoto> taigask: well what does it say on the floppies? :-P
[23:23] <LordHoto> but, yeah, floppy it is then
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[23:32] <taigask> so, is there a workaround?
[23:32] <LordHoto> nope
[23:33] <Lightkey> so it seems that after those six Star Wars games will come.. another six Star Wars games? :-(
[23:33] <Lightkey> at least according to the e-mail sent, let's hope one is Yoda's Desktop Adventures! :-P
[23:34] Action: Lightkey ducks
[23:34] <Strangerke> :D
[23:35] <m_kiewitz> I hope that at some point the almost finished Star Wars HD ports will be released (Rogue Leader, Rogue Squadron, Rebel Strike)
[23:35] <m_kiewitz> or at least Disney will finally release the unmodified Star Wars trilogy on BluRay
[23:35] <droid2727> m_kiewitz: yeah, those SD ones are unplayable
[23:35] <m_kiewitz> well they are playable, it would be nicer in HD though :P I can play the 2 Gamecube ones on Wii U. They look ok.
[23:36] <taigask> consoles are so expensive
[23:36] <LordHoto> Rogue Squadron looks okay too :-P
[23:37] <somaen> m_kiewitz: Presumably an original trilogy on blu-ray is non-trivial
[23:37] <somaen> The scans might have been SD-quality.
[23:37] <somaen> Then again it was in a period when LA did their camera work in native 1080p
[23:37] <LordHoto> somaen: more like 4k or even more TBH
[23:37] <somaen> So, they MIGHT of course have done a proper scan once and for all (of the material they insisted on being lost for all time during the creation of the SE)
[23:37] <m_kiewitz> well I won't buy any of it until the unmodified ones are finally released
[23:38] <somaen> Also, I meant LF
[23:38] <droid2727> I think it's non-trivial because they modified the film for SE
[23:38] Action: droid2727 pokes blitter
[23:38] <somaen> LordHoto: Given how much they lied about it being lost forever, I assume not.
[23:38] <somaen> I don't even know if the current original DVDs are master-copies or just second-generation rescues.
[23:38] <LordHoto> There must be some archive with 35mm copies for cinemas around. It's not like it's the best quality of copy you can have, but... :-P
[23:39] <m_kiewitz> Disney will surely do, they know that lots of fans are waiting for those. Didn't Lucas even put another "nooooo" into Return of the Jedi for the Bluray release?
[23:39] <m_kiewitz> ah there it is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27RVJJfny4I
[23:40] <m_kiewitz> haha, that's 100% trolling the fans
[23:40] <m_kiewitz> (unless that video is fake)
[23:40] <somaen> Well, given what happened to the archived Babylon 5 stuff, I'm carefull about saying "must" when it comes to archiving and movies.
[23:41] <LordHoto> Well, I saw the first act of A New Hope on a 35mm reel.
[23:41] <LordHoto> :-P
[23:41] <LordHoto> Sadly, it was only the first act.
[23:41] <LordHoto> Otherwise, I would've bought it.
[23:41] <LordHoto> :-P
[23:41] <m_kiewitz> the 35mm reel? :P
[23:41] <LordHoto> yes
[23:41] <m_kiewitz> well, it surely would have been worth it
[23:41] <LordHoto> Well, 20 minutes or so is not worth buying.
[23:41] <LordHoto> :-P
[23:42] <m_kiewitz> yes, the whole thing of course not just a few minutes
[23:42] <LordHoto> Yeah, but, as I said, it was only the first act.
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[23:42] <GitHub129> scummvm/master 1330cb7 Filippos Karapetis: ZVISION: Remove superfluous check
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[23:43] <LordHoto> Wouldn't have not bought a full copy of the original film :-P
[23:44] <somaen> IIRC there was some dude that STOLE one reel of Phantom Menace around its original run.
[23:44] <m_kiewitz> I threw the almost not modified VHS tapes away :(
[23:44] <somaen> Those reels aren't exactly light-weight.
[23:44] <droid2727> LordHoto would've sold both kidneys
[23:45] <LordHoto> Yeah
[23:45] <somaen> m_kiewitz: 97, or 80s?
[23:45] <LordHoto> I have multiple ones.
[23:45] <LordHoto> I got some films on 35mm reels :-P
[23:45] <m_kiewitz> i'm not sure anymore, maybe 97. those were still better than the ones on DVD + Bluray
[23:45] <somaen> The 90s SE didn't have all the minor stuff added to the 2004-version atleast (and might not have had the mirrored music-channels)
[23:46] <somaen> IIRC Han shot first untill 2004.
[23:46] <somaen> But 97 added the Jabba scene in ANH for instance.
[23:46] <somaen> Also, possibly the rocks in front of R2D2
[23:46] <m_kiewitz> yeah that was stupid as well :/ don't remind me
[23:46] <m_kiewitz> nah the rocks came later. At least I think so
[23:46] <m_kiewitz> i think they were introduced for DVD
[23:47] <LordHoto> LeChuck missed out.
[23:47] <LordHoto> That one is hilarious.
[23:47] <m_kiewitz> yeah, that trailer is really funny. sadly it's also accurate :P
[23:47] <somaen> The JJ Abrams cut of it is also spot on.
[23:48] <droid2727> somaen: Greedo shoots first in '97, the timing was changed for '04
[23:49] <droid2727> somaen: and "Han shot first" isn't fair; Greedo didn't shoot at all.
[23:50] <somaen> The depth of detail people put into that bit though, I can't really get it.
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[23:51] <somaen> Then again, I never saw the 77-version untill after both 97 and 04
[23:53] <somaen> Looking at a comparison though, I can see that it makes sense the other way around, so I guess it's just a matter of me seeing 97 first, and thus not putting much into that scene as a character building bit.
[23:54] <somaen> Right, the rocks are apparently a Blu-Ray addition
[23:54] <m_kiewitz> i saw the trilogy ages ago as a kid on tv. The 100% unmodified one.
[23:54] <LordHoto> I'm somewhat glad I didn't see the blu-ray release yet :-P
[23:54] <droid2727> LordHoto is saving the added "nooooooo" for a rainy day
[23:55] <m_kiewitz> rocks were added for bluray? oh god. i have no idea what lucas thought. i think he is really trolling the fans. "look i can change all that crap and you suckers will still buy it"
[23:55] <LordHoto> droid2727: You forgot: I'm in the land of never ending rain.
[23:56] <m_kiewitz> or maybe its just a ploy, so that disney can finally sell the unmodified one on bluray and make tons of money
[23:56] <droid2727> LordHoto: :D
[23:56] <somaen> m_kiewitz: Meh, the real money is in the clone wars.
[23:56] <LordHoto> Or maybe people don't care about three rocks.
[23:56] <droid2727> LordHoto: probably only three in the channel who still get that one!
[23:57] <LordHoto> droid2727: Too many young kids around, eh?
[23:57] <droid2727> young whippersnappers
[23:57] <somaen> The Hayden Christensen change is the real biggie in my book though
[23:58] <LordHoto> ......
[23:58] <LordHoto> Why don't you even have to mention it?
[23:58] <LordHoto> *do
[23:58] <somaen> It is perhaps the single one that is glaring enough that everyone notices.
[23:59] <LordHoto> At least now we know that people going over to the dark side don't age.
[00:00] --- Wed Jan 21 2015