ScummVM IRC Log - 18 Aug 2014

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[07:19] <gus> I wrote this a few years ago, but finally have somewhere that I can host it now:
[07:19] <gus> http://scummvm.pasture.mooo.com/scummvm.html
[07:19] <gus> (it might take a little while the first time you run it - until your browser caches some of the larger files)
[07:21] <fuzzie> what madness is this
[07:23] <fuzzie> there seems to be an actual scummvm in my web browser, not something broken for emscripten
[07:24] <gus> The build process is "interesting", but otherwise it looks like a normal C++ port to a new "html5" platform. The drawing operations thunk to some javascript code to update an HTML5 canvas, etc.
[07:24] <gus> yeah, it doesn't use emscripten at all.
[07:24] <fuzzie> I assumed that by the fact it actually works :)
[07:24] <fuzzie> (also: hi gus!)
[07:24] <gus> I started with emscripten, then realised it just gave me a main() function that didn't exit, and that wasn't so useful. So I wrote an LLVM bitcode interpreter in javascript instead.
[07:24] <gus> hey :)
[07:25] <fuzzie> that is such a crazy approach, I love it.
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[07:26] <fuzzie> it seems perfectly playable, too
[07:26] <gus> currently it converts filesystem operations into relative (readonly/GET) URL fetches.
[07:27] <fuzzie> should be okay?
[07:27] <gus> WIth a small amount more code, I could use HTML5 local storage and do save games.
[07:27] <fuzzie> I hope you've already seen that the save code is separate in scummvm
[07:28] <gus> I think audio might be a lost cause, since the state of HTML5 audio seems completely bonkers.
[07:28] <fuzzie> pft
[07:28] <gus> fuzzie: yep.
[07:28] <fuzzie> if shadertoy can generate html5 audio from shaders using webgl.. :)
[07:29] <fuzzie> but that is very cool.
[07:29] <gus> "best" for html5 would be hacking in higher up the chain inside scummvm - so sending ogg, etc directly to the browser for decoding there.
[07:29] <gus> but that wasn't something I wanted to embark on :/
[07:30] <fuzzie> it'd need a lot of custom per-engine work I guess
[07:30] <fuzzie> because it's pretty uncommon for this to be in any format a browser can play
[07:30] <fuzzie> (and often you can't convert it to that)
[07:30] <gus> yeah. I imagine it would look similar to using mp3/whatever hardware acceleration on some embedded port.
[07:31] <fuzzie> I don't suppose this is in a repo anywhere? :)
[07:31] <gus> certain formats/mixing would take a fast path, and the rest would be slow.
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[07:31] <gus> fuzzie: good question. I forget ...
[07:32] <fuzzie> the mixer is designed to be a pure interface, so ideally it shouldn't be too much trouble to replace that
[07:33] <fuzzie> any idea what (if anything) is killing performance here?
[07:33] <gus> huh, no I don't think I have the source uploaded anywhere public yet. I should fix that.
[07:33] <fuzzie> we were vaguely looking at the idea of hw-accelerating some surface operations
[07:33] <gus> fuzzie: its complicated.
[07:34] <gus> any function that gets called multiple times, and doesn't block gets "JITed" into a pure JS equivalent.
[07:34] <gus> so those functions are mostly dominated by JS function call overhead, and access to/from "memory" (local variables are fast).
[07:35] <gus> anything that blocks, like user I/O is slow because of the largish amounts of JS overhead involved in the interpreted path.
[07:35] <gus> I haven't done much optimisation work on it.
[07:35] <fuzzie> right. but just moving code into a separate function would likely speed things up?
[07:36] <gus> oh - and JS only has 32 bit ints(*), so anything that uses 64bit or greater is really slow.
[07:36] <fuzzie> well, I assume you're quite likely to be fed up / bored with it, but this is a really nice-looking approach
[07:36] <gus> fuzzie: I spent about 18months on it, and now haven't touched it in about that long.
[07:36] <gus> So some of the details are now a bit vague :/
[07:37] <fuzzie> so if you could put source somewhere at a time before you forget about it again, I'd appreciate it
[07:37] <gus> also, asm.js is somewhat supported in firefox now, so it might be worth seeing if that's worth optimising for too.
[07:37] <fuzzie> someone tried chopping blocking calls out of engines for emscripten, but they gave up after half-finishing SCUMM
[07:38] <gus> fuzzie: yeah, I gave up on that approach after about 2 days :/
[07:38] <fuzzie> (and that's so invasive for some engines that I'm not sure we'd want to take it)
[07:38] <gus> right. This is very minimal on the scummvm code base.
[07:39] <gus> But like I said, the build process is "interesting" because it needs to generate all the JS, then minimize it, then do some post-compile JS massaging.
[07:39] <gus> the C++ side otoh, is just a straight LLVM compile to scummvm.bc
[07:40] <fuzzie> I'm surprised to find it's considerably slower in the Chrome I have here than in Fireox
[07:40] <fuzzie> Firefox
[07:40] <gus> really? that's cool since I hardly tested it in firefox at all :P
[07:41] <fuzzie> heh, and I see that the overlay is the wrong resolution :-)
[07:41] <fuzzie> but yes, I can imagine is being a non-fun build process
[07:41] <gus> it has 3 canvases - game, overlay + mouse
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[07:42] <gus> so theoretically the overlay can be at a different resolution than the rest.
[07:42] <fuzzie> right now I am scrambling to graduate myself, but given enough hints I'm sure I could look at it in september
[07:42] <gus> I can't remember what I ended up doing..
[07:43] <gus> yeah, I'll dump the code somewhere and stop worrying about making the js interpreter easier to use first (since clearly that approach isn't getting anywhere).
[07:43] <aquadran> I wonder about ResidualVM port using webGL
[07:43] <gus> I tried to do a gldoom/SDL port to the same LLVM interpreter just for kicks.
[07:44] <gus> It was difficult because 1) gldoom uses OpenGL1 but webgl is GLES2 and 2) doom uses heaps of 64bit maths, which found lots of bugs in my crappy attempt at implementing them on 32bit javascript values :/
[07:45] <fuzzie> presumably it'd be easier to make residualVM work, then
[07:45] <aquadran> residual have GLES2 support now, so might be possible :)
[07:45] <fuzzie> I think the lack of any freely-available data would be a rather more irritating sticking-point :)
[07:45] <gus> but I wrote enough of an SDL library, and enough of a GLES2 shader to get the gldoom code displaying something.
[07:45] <fuzzie> you sound .. really bored.
[07:45] <gus> yeah, if it already supports gles2 then we're a long way there.
[07:45] <aquadran> fuzzie: you can play with demos :)
[07:46] <gus> fuzzie: I had a long commute ;)
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[07:46] <fuzzie> heh.
[07:47] <fuzzie> I am crossing my fingers and hoping I will manage to get *anything* done with my hours on trains later this year, so that is inspiring if done on a commute :P
[07:48] <gus> oh, and palette rotation is *really* slow when your 8bit display is being emulated in javascript :/
[07:48] <fuzzie> heh
[07:48] <fuzzie> use a shader!
[07:48] <gus> yeah I should.
[07:49] <fuzzie> it's terrifyingly trivial
[07:49] <gus> Actually I meant to do that on the Android GLES2 version too.
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[07:50] <waltervn> morning
[07:51] <aquadran> morning
[07:52] <fuzzie> gus: that is also on my todo list, so if you're bored at some point.. :p
[07:53] <fuzzie> must merge aassets code too.
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[08:18] <wjp> wow :-)
[08:52] <Cheeseness> Woah, neat gus
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[11:20] <Strangerke|work> hi guys
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[11:41] <aquadran> hi
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[18:07] <HypnZ> lo all
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[19:13] <Strangerke> hi HypnZ
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[00:00] --- Tue Aug 19 2014