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[04:21] <ScummBot> Port build status changed with 02e3e82e: Failure: master-ouya
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[04:22] <GitHub30> [scummvm] klusark opened pull request #560: ANDROID: Remove unpacker and fix support for non arm (master...unpack) http://git.io/Y32JVg
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[04:51] <ScummBot> Port build status changed with 02e3e82e: Failure: master-android_arm
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[06:01] <MestreLion> Hi there! I'm trying to make ScummVM work with Timidity under Ubuntu 12.04. `aplaymidi -l` shows Timidity running in 128:0-3, and both `aplaymidi -p 128:0 ~/testsong.mid` and `timidity ~/testsong.mid` works, but no music from games when I set Scummvm to Timidity [ALSA]. Terminal output says "Connected to Alsa sequencer client [128:0], ALSA client initialized [129:0]", but no music... any ideas?
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[06:16] <MestreLion> (PS: I can hear a subtle 'click' sound when I start the game, which tells me it's very close to work...
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[06:54] <fuzzie> MestreLion: which game are you trying?
[06:55] <MestreLion> fuzzie: a few of them... dott, foa, sanmax
[06:57] <MestreLion> also, if I start Timidity server (`timidity -ir 7777` in another terminal), and then select timidity (not the [ALSA] version) on Scumm, it works
[06:58] <MestreLion> I'm trying both ScummVM 1.4.1 (that shups with Ubuntu 12.04) and git
[06:58] <fuzzie> and you set 'GM Device', right?
[06:59] <fuzzie> I guess you did, if server works :)
[06:59] <fuzzie> (gosh our GUI really is slooow..)
[07:00] <fuzzie> the terminal output there is fine
[07:01] <fuzzie> so that's pretty weird, it's not anything silly like wrong volumes?
[07:05] <MestreLion> fuzzie: GUI is confusing... there are 3 tabs to configure MIDI device, so I almost never know which tabs I must set or which devices it actually uses when I set things to <auto> or <default>
[07:07] <fuzzie> you presumably want to use General MIDI, so you should be using the GM tab
[07:08] <fuzzie> If you set music to default and don't enable GM/MT32 music then I think you will generally end up with adlib, but I don't remember which exceptions might exist.
[07:10] <MestreLion> i've installed the MT-32 ROMs in the Extra path, so I am able to use MT-32
[07:11] <fuzzie> emulating a MT-32 is useless to you if you want timidity output, though
[07:13] <MestreLion> fuzzie: there are some combinations I don't understand: if I set some device on the "Audio" tab and then set "Don't use General MIDI music" on the "MIDI" tab, the selected device still plays
[07:13] <MestreLion> So I never know if I should change the device in Audio, MIDI, or both
[07:19] <fuzzie> Right, if you set music to default and do enable GM music then you'll get GM in games which support GM, and adlib otherwise.
[07:19] <fuzzie> If you set a GM device on the Audio tab, but the game doesn't support GM, then it will fail (hopefully with a warning dialog).
[07:23] <MestreLion> fuzzie: and what is a game that des not support GM? Later games like The Dig or Full Throttle?
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[07:47] <fuzzie> sorry, no idea off the top of my heaf (both those named games have digitised music only, so not GM nor MT32/midi/etc)
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[09:03] <Strangerke|work> hi guys
[09:07] <wjp> morning
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[09:14] <MestreLion> If I place a soundfont .SF2 file in the Extra dir, do ScummVM automatically loads it or do I have to also specify it (with full path?) in the MIDI tab?
[09:17] <wjp> not sure if you need the full path, but you do need to specify the soundfont to use explicitly
[09:17] <eriktorbjorn> In the only SoundFont loading I'm aware of, the SoundFont file has to be specified in the settings. (Shouldn't matter which folder it's in then.) But only a few MIDI drivers use it.
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[09:19] <MestreLion> I'm planning to use FluidSynth
[09:20] <eriktorbjorn> That should work.
[09:21] <MestreLion> So I'm not sure why the manual says ScummVM will look for SF2 files in the "Extras" dir
[09:22] <wjp> you probably don't need the full path if it's in that dir
[09:24] <eriktorbjorn> I don't remember seeing that (can't find it now; perhaps I'm searching for the wrong thing), but the "soundfont" variable in my ScummVM settings file points to somewhere that's not in my extra path.
[09:26] <eriktorbjorn> I almost never use the FluidSynth driver though, since I still have a sound card with a built-in MIDI synth. Not sure how long I'll be able to use that, though. It must be about 15 years old by now, and I'm thinking about getting a new computer any year now. :-)
[09:29] <MestreLion> At least 1.4.1 requires a full path, so it seems there is no realation at all with the Extra dir
[09:31] <MestreLion> Another question: I see that I can set FluidSynth in both Audio and MT-32 tabs, which is kind of confusing... So what really happens if I set Audio to "MT-32 Emulation" and then set MT-32 Device to FluidSynth? is that any different from directly setting FluidSynth in Audio?
[09:32] <wjp> you shouldn't set mt-32 device to fluidsynth, because fluidsynth doesn't do mt-32
[09:32] <MestreLion> I'm having a hard time figuring how those 3 tabs (Audio, MIDI and MT-32) relates to each other. PS: I've configure both an SF2 file and the MT-32 ROMS in my Extra dir...
[09:32] <wjp> yes, they're very confusing
[09:33] <MestreLion> wjp: if fluidsynth does'nt do MT-32, why is it listed there?
[09:34] <wjp> are all devices listed there?
[09:35] <MestreLion> wjp: most of them... there's Timidity [ALSA], MIDI-Through [ALSA] Timidity, SEQ, and MT-32 Emulation
[09:35] <MestreLion> and Fluidsynth
[09:36] <eriktorbjorn> Never understood the MT-32 tab myself, so I just assumed it was for when connecting a real MT-32 to your computer. And since I've never done that, I've just ignored it so I could be completely and utterly wrong about it.
[09:37] <wjp> that's how I use it, yes. (Or the MT-32 emulator)
[09:40] <MestreLion> wjp: but should MT-32 Emulator be selected in Audio tab, MT-32 tab, both, or either?
[09:40] <wjp> if you select it in the audio tab, you basically force the game (or all games, if you're in the global options) to use that
[09:41] <wjp> if you select it in the mt-32 tab, games have a preference for using an mt-32 device will use it
[09:41] <wjp> s/have/that have/
[09:41] <MestreLion> i'm configuring globally first, then I can tweak games... i'm using tentacle, atlantis and sannmax for testing
[09:42] <wjp> my personal approach is just to have the global audio settings to Adlib since that is almost guaranteed to work, and then force individual games to a specific device if I prefer
[09:43] <MestreLion> but i'm having a really hard time figuring out how each midi-related option in the GUI relates to each other. Is there any list that shows which games favor/supports which device?
[09:44] <wjp> not as far as I know
[09:44] <wjp> but our midi config is very confusing, yes
[09:45] <wjp> we have a number of ideas floating around to improve it, but nothing has happened yet
[09:45] <MestreLion> is there any debug level that shows which driver is being used when I load a game?
[09:45] <MestreLion> I've tried anything from -d0 to -d100 and I could not find a straight answer from log
[09:52] <wjp> hm, probably not, actually
[09:54] <wjp> would probably be nice to add
[09:54] <MestreLion> Please do :)
[09:54] <wjp> in MidiDriver::createMidi, probably
[09:56] <wjp> can you submit a feature request or bug report for this? (I can't do it right now)
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[09:56] <MestreLion> specially if you consider more "obscure" settings such as "True Roland MT-32", "Roland GS Mode", etc
[09:57] <MestreLion> I've enabled the "true roland" one just to see the result.. and tentacle end up using... fluidsynth! (that was set in MIDI tab)
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[09:59] <wjp> DOTT is Adlib/GM, preferring GM, if I read this right
[10:00] <MestreLion> wjp: but it does sound amazing if I use MT-32 Emulator as the device in Audio tab... much better than Fluidsynth 150MB SF2 that ships in /usr/share/sound/sf2
[10:01] <wjp> you should disable "True Roland MT-32" though, when using Fluidsynth
[10:01] <wjp> not 100% sure what DOTT will do if you have that enabled, but it can't be good...
[10:02] <MestreLion> wjp: I'm not sure "when" I'm using Fluidsynth or not
[10:03] <MestreLion> I've enabled True Roland in MT-32 and selected MT-32 Emulator in Audio tab... sounds amazing, though not sure what if actually playing
[10:03] <MestreLion> :P
[10:03] <MestreLion> s/if/is
[10:04] <wjp> if you don't have an actual physical MT-32, you can just keep that checkbox disabled, I think
[10:04] <wjp> if you select the MT-32 Emulator, it'll know it's an MT-32. (This is one of the few cases where this device detection is smart... :-) )
[10:05] <wjp> this native_mt32 checkbox is rather problematic, since it's a setting that gets applied to all devices...
[10:06] <wjp> fortunately if you don't have a physical MT-32, you can just leave it disabled and everything is fine
[10:06] <wjp> the reason for its existence is that otherwise we can't tell if you have an MT-32 or a GM device hooked up to a physical Midi port
[10:07] <MestreLion> I have an onboard soundcard... I really miss my PCI SB Live!
[10:07] Action: wjp still has an old PCI SB, just for the midi port :-)
[10:08] <MestreLion> wjp: is that an SB Live ?
[10:08] <wjp> nah, something cheaper
[10:10] <MestreLion> I wish I had extracted the soundfonts that came with with my SB Live before I replaced everything with onboard stuff
[10:14] <MestreLion> wjp: is there a way to know which games have a "dedicated MT-32 soundtrack"?
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[10:16] <wjp> this is a bit old, but: http://forums.scummvm.org/viewtopic.php?t=7749
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[10:20] <MestreLion> "a bit old" is not a problem for 1992 games :P
[10:22] <wjp> well, it won't cover games we didn't support back then
[10:22] <MestreLion> true... but i'm only interested in the "classic" LA Scumm games from DOTT till FT
[10:23] <MestreLion> dott, atlantis, sanmax, dig, throttle...
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[10:25] <MestreLion> but really, this whole MIDI config needs an overhaul in terms of UX/GUI... settings are scattered through 3 tabs with no clear distinction of how each parameter relates to each other. I wish I had a better understanding of this whole MIDI world (GS, GM, MT, etc) to help with ideas on how to improve it
[10:27] <wjp> it does need an overhaul, yes
[10:28] <MestreLion> but an idea to greatly improve it would be the log/console output: on each game load, output what the game has (AdLib / GM / MT-32 / Digitalized soundtracks), what is configured in options, and what is the end result that is actually playing
[10:28] <wjp> that's ... tricky
[10:29] <MestreLion> isn't that done already in code?
[10:29] <wjp> not necessarily in any consistent or central fashion
[10:31] <wjp> it would definitely be nice though
[10:32] <MestreLion> wjp: would t be tricky to at least output something like "setting music device to Fluidsynth using soundfont xxx" or "playing MT-32 soundtrack in device xxxx" ?
[10:32] <MestreLion> at least output which audio driver was selected when using the <auto> option
[10:33] <wjp> that should be doable
[10:33] <wjp> it's the "what the game has" part that's tricky
[10:33] <wjp> what's actually _used_ with a given set of options is easier
[10:33] <MestreLion> that alone would be great
[10:34] <wjp> please submit a feature request for it to help us remember
[10:35] <MestreLion> sure... I'm also just finishing a patch to improve Fate of Atlantis in-game Help
[10:35] <MestreLion> are you a dev?
[10:36] <wjp> anyway, if you're fine-tuning devices, you'll want to ignore the MT-32 tab entirely (keep MT-32 device empty, disable both checkboxes), in the MIDI tab, don't set the "GM Device" option, and use only the "Music Device" option in the Audio tab.
[10:36] <wjp> that way, you can be fairly certain what's used
[10:36] <wjp> (although I'm not 100% sure what would happen if the game doesn't support that device)
[10:36] <wjp> yes, I'm a dev
[10:37] <wjp> ah, I think we may give a warning dialog if you explicitly select a device that the game can't use
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[10:41] <MestreLion> wjp: care to check if this patch is acceptable (including the commit message format)? https://github.com/MestreLion/scummvm/commit/5d852b5c56cf54cbd447ad29b6ab2318ac8ef8ae
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[10:43] <MestreLion> It does compile and run fine... I really missed the "i" for Inventory/IQ Points and "0" for Sucker Punch when I first tried Fate of Atlantis in Scumm after 10 (15?) years :)
[10:43] <wjp> seems fine at first glance, but I'm not familiar with the code in question
[10:45] <wjp> is HELP_NUM_LINES still large enough?
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[10:46] <GitHub188> [scummvm] MestreLion opened pull request #561: SCUMM: Improve FOA keyboard help (master...foa_help) http://git.io/OU_z2A
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[10:47] <MestreLion> wjp: IMHO it is quite limited, but I did not change the number of lines... I've deleted a blank line to accomodate the Sucker Punch
[10:48] <wjp> I'm just asking because you can overflow an array of size HELP_NUM_LINES
[10:49] <MestreLion> wjp: I noticed... had a few segfaults before realizing what was going on :P
[10:51] <wjp> ok :-)
[10:52] <MestreLion> the code runs fine, my doubt is about the commit message, andperhaps the note I've added about the Keyboard Fighting toggle
[10:53] <MestreLion> took me a while to figure that "Keyboard Fighting On" string from the game script itself, not ScummVM
[10:53] <MestreLion> it's quite a misleading string tho
[10:54] <MestreLion> at least the way it is implemented in ScummVM, this actually enables or disables *Mouse* fighting
[10:55] <MestreLion> Keyboard numpad was always working, regadless of this setting (and regardless of my NumLock status, which is quite weird)
[10:56] <MestreLion> for fighting I mean
[11:11] <MestreLion> wjp: thanks a lot for all the tips on MIDI config :)
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[11:24] <WooShell> good meowning =^.^=
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[12:40] <MestreLion> sorry, had to quit... did I miss anything?
[12:41] <Strangerke|work> nope
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[16:20] <Strangerke|work> _sev|work: Concerning the next release, I dropped a line to Paul. He thinks he can finish the polishing of Rex in a reasonable delay and have it supported for the next release. The main issue is a crash in one of the ending animations. He'll work on that next weekend
[16:21] <_sev|work> great
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[16:21] <Strangerke|work> _sev|work: AGoE is also very close to supported: it was tested on AmigaOS (the demo at least) and there's a small pathfinding issue that may happen, apart that not much
[16:22] <Strangerke|work> the fadings are a bit slow on AmigaOS
[16:22] <Strangerke|work> and no music in the demo as it's using the music format of MM (which isn't RE yet)
[16:23] <Strangerke|work> but I wouldn't block a release for AGoE, as basically nobody cares about this game
[16:30] <Strangerke|work> what's the status of Sword25 btw? Do you expect it to be supported in the next release?
[16:33] <fuzzie> it's only blocked on saves I think so we should be good for next release
[16:35] <Strangerke|work> I thought the last commits were dealing specifically with this issue...
[16:37] <fuzzie> yes
[16:37] <fuzzie> so: should be good afaik
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[16:37] <Strangerke|work> but it's still blocked on savegames? :/
[16:38] <Strangerke|work> Oh, fine :)
[16:38] <Strangerke|work> sorry, I misunderstood
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[17:12] <wjp> we shouldn't forget to _test_ saves (and the rest of the game), though
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[17:24] <lewellyn> yes. play games. for science! ;)
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[17:39] <Strangerke> wjp: Indeed ;)
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[17:57] <Vanfanel> LordHoto: I still need help with your explanation. What do you mean with "on overlay enable/display, update the clipped one based on the original one"? Do you mean the show/hide overlay functions??
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[19:04] <LePhilousophe> hey
[19:04] <LePhilousophe> https://archive.org/details/msdos_Leisure_Suit_Larry_1_-_Land_of_the_Lounge_Lizards_VGA_1991
[19:04] <LePhilousophe> I suppose they have the right to redistribute it
[19:04] <LePhilousophe> but I am a bit puzzled
[19:09] <fuzzie> pretty sure they don't
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[19:18] <eriktorbjorn> I never understood how they justify those things myself. Maybe there's some loophole because the game runs in a browser, but I'd feel uncomfortable about it.
[19:18] <DrMcCoy> fuzzie: According to Wikipedia, the Internet Archive got a DMCA exception from the US Copyright Office
[19:18] <droid2727> O_o
[19:18] <DrMcCoy> Yeah
[19:18] <DrMcCoy> For archival purposes
[19:19] <DrMcCoy> But they shouldn't allow people to download the games...
[19:19] <droid2727> redistribute != archive
[19:19] <fuzzie> no, that's different
[19:19] <DrMcCoy> droid2727: Yeah
[19:19] <fuzzie> that's for circumvention, and a different group
[19:20] <DrMcCoy> http://archive.org/about/dmca.php
[19:20] <fuzzie> last time I asked around about this, I didn't get anyone trying to justify it as legal
[19:20] <DrMcCoy> Well, IANAL
[19:20] <fuzzie> DrMcCoy: "anti-circumvention clause of the DMCA" :)
[19:21] <fuzzie> I guess all this press is bound to result in legal threats for them
[19:21] <fuzzie> so that's one way to solve the issue
[19:21] <DrMcCoy> Hmm
[19:21] <eriktorbjorn> DrMcCoy: Do they allow that? I saw the "play in browser" link, nothing else. That's why I was thinking maybe that was a loophole of some sort.
[19:22] <DrMcCoy> fuzzie: I expected those people to know what they're doing... Dunno
[19:22] <DrMcCoy> eriktorbjorn: Yes, play in browser, but there's also a ZIP download link at the bottom
[19:22] <DrMcCoy> Wait
[19:22] <DrMcCoy> Oh, not for LSL1
[19:23] <DrMcCoy> I've seen a download link in some of those
[19:25] <fuzzie> it's still a .zip file behind the scenes
[19:25] <DrMcCoy> Oh, right, Commander Keen 4, for example. But that episode was Shareware anyway, right?
[19:27] <fuzzie> i.e. their emulator does just grab a zip with a predictable filename which you can clearly see in the traffic anyay
[19:28] <fuzzie> sigh
[19:28] <DrMcCoy> :/
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[20:00] <LePhilousophe> that's just dosbox in browser right ?
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[20:05] <syke> well, hello hello.
[20:06] <salty-horse> LePhilousophe, that, and games hosted on archive.org without permissions
[20:07] <syke> halo aquadran, DrMcCoy, eriktorbjorn, LordHoto, m_kiewitz, Strangerke, wjp, yaz0r, etc
[20:07] <DrMcCoy> syke!
[20:07] <wjp> hi!
[20:08] <Strangerke> Hey syke! :) What's up? :)
[20:09] <syke> howdy doo
[20:10] <syke> what's up& quite a bit, I guess
[20:11] <Strangerke> hum... since when? :)
[20:11] <syke> exactly
[20:11] <Strangerke> then obviously: We now support Sfinx!
[20:11] <Strangerke> :D
[20:12] <syke> it looks like we'll be buying a flat in San Francisco, I started a job at LG's Silicon Valley Lab a few months ago, and I'm working on more music to be released thsi year
[20:12] <Strangerke> Nice
[20:13] <syke> also been playing a metric fuckton of video games on my PS4 and Vita :)
[20:13] <syke> I saw that Sfinx announcement, but I've never heard of that game before
[20:13] <Strangerke> yeah, and it's advertising a lot on your FB account :P
[20:13] <syke> more excited for the Access Software games, personally
[20:13] <Strangerke> that's not surprising, it was in Polish only before we translate it ;)
[20:14] <Strangerke> Well, only AGoE is supported for the moment, which may be far less exciting for a lot of people
[20:16] <Strangerke> Also, we have more or less complete support for Zork Nemesis, Zork Grand Inquisitor, Rex Nebular and the cosmic gender bender
[20:16] <syke> want some rye? 'course ya do!
[20:17] <syke> Amazon was a great game, from my memory.
[20:17] <syke> my sister and I loved Countdown to Doomsday
[20:17] <Strangerke> And if you weren't around for a really long time, Return to Ringworld, Neverhood and Voyeur, and several Wintermute games
[20:17] <syke> despite some incredibly obtuse puzzles (wine bottle/rack puzzle, specifically)
[20:17] <syke> yea
[20:17] <syke> I saw the SSI gold box games got added
[20:18] <Strangerke> and...
[20:18] <Strangerke> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0wZToT3WqE
[20:18] <syke> my friend who died a few years ago loved those SSI games
[20:18] <Strangerke> Mortevielle Manor.
[20:18] <Strangerke> We'll work on Countdown after Martian Memorandum is supported
[20:18] <Strangerke> maybe not right after, as Return of the Phantom is also in the pipe
[20:20] <syke> MM came a few years after Countdown, IIRC
[20:20] <Strangerke> nope, less than a year
[20:22] <syke> oh wow
[20:22] <syke> it was over 25 years ago now ;)
[20:22] <syke> brb
[20:26] <eriktorbjorn> Strangerke: So basically you're determined to make http://www.mobygames.com/game/dos/private-eye-mysteries even more rare and expensive than it already is? ;-)
[20:27] <Strangerke> right after PDWT and Blue Ice :P
[20:28] <syke> PDWT?
[20:28] <syke> brb
[20:29] <Strangerke> Plumbers Don't Wear Ties :P
[20:29] <LordHoto> Vanfanel: yeah, show/hide overlay
[20:29] <LordHoto> syke: I think that's short for "Plumbers don't wear ties"
[20:29] <LordHoto> syke: hi btw.
[20:30] <eriktorbjorn> Strangerke: You can support Blue Ice, but you can't make me play it.
[20:31] <Strangerke> I'll ask you every 3 minutes until you finish it...
[20:31] <LordHoto> eriktorbjorn: :-D
[20:31] <Strangerke> I guess I'll be on your ignore list after 6 minutes :/
[20:32] <LordHoto> Strangerke: That sounds like an optimistic estimate to me.
[20:32] <Strangerke> eriktorbjorn is more patient than you, that's why
[20:33] <eriktorbjorn> Strangerke: It might take me that long to figure out how to set that up, yes.
[20:33] <Strangerke> :D
[20:34] <Strangerke> That can't take longer than finishing Blue Ice anyway
[20:34] <Strangerke> (there's no end, right?)
[20:37] <eriktorbjorn> Strangerke: I thought there was one. Didn't they plan to have some contest about it, or am I confusing it with some other - and probably much, much better - game?
[20:37] <Strangerke> yes but I thought nobody finished the game so far
[20:37] <eriktorbjorn> Anyway, aren't there other Access games to support first? :-)
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[20:38] <Strangerke> yeah, yeah, working on it :'(
[20:38] <eriktorbjorn> The ScummVM wiki lists Noctropolis and Synnergist. I played Noctropolis, from what I remember it wasn't bad.
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[20:39] <Strangerke> those are later games iirc
[20:39] <droid2727> There's more important M4 games!
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[20:39] <syke> back
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[20:39] <eriktorbjorn> I've been meaning to play Synnergist some day, but - and call me shallow if you like - it's just so inexplicably ugly for a 1996 game.
[20:39] <Strangerke> M4 will come after MADS, except if johndoe makes an engine before we look at them
[20:39] <syke> hey lordhoto :)
[20:39] <Strangerke> and MADS is terribly, TERRIBLY hardcoded. If takes time
[20:40] <droid2727> Strangerke: but the MADS games suck :P
[20:40] <Strangerke> I don't know, I never played them
[20:40] <Strangerke> I even managed to find testers for Rex so I don't play it myself :D
[20:41] <Strangerke> and there are ... euh... 4 MADS game left, IIRC
[20:41] <syke> Blue Ice was the Jim Walls (formerly of Sierra/Police Quest) game?
[20:42] <Strangerke> syke: no, it's a crap from Psygnosis, mid-90s
[20:42] <Strangerke> you're mixing with Blue Force
[20:42] <Strangerke> which is supported, btw
[20:42] <Strangerke> (Tsunami game, TsAGE engine)
[20:43] <droid2727> Strangerke: Why would you work on it then? :P
[20:43] <Strangerke> droid2727... If I was only working on game I played, I would have left the project after Fascination support
[20:48] <SylvainTV> aha i'm like that :p
[20:48] <syke> heh
[20:48] <syke> what happened to the fellow who was doing a lot of the SCI1 work a few years ago?
[20:48] <syke> I'm still friends with him on PSN, but can't remember what his IRC nick was
[20:49] <Strangerke> syke: m_kiewitz? [md5]? wjp?
[20:51] <syke> can't remember :/
[20:51] <syke> I remember lived in germany, near the swiss border
[20:52] <syke> and had a pretty debilitating disease of some kind
[20:53] <syke> ah, it was m_kiewitz
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[20:54] <eriktorbjorn> syke: This is Blue Ice: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbibUYtUNcY
[20:56] <syke> wtf
[20:56] <Strangerke> exactly!
[20:58] <syke> well
[20:58] <syke> it's& interesting
[20:58] <syke> it qualifies as an 'adventure' gam?
[20:58] <syke> not that a strict definition is particularly useful, but
[20:58] <syke> wtf was that?
[21:00] <LordHoto> syke: it's Strangerke's all time favorite
[21:00] <Strangerke> nope, my favorite is PDWT
[21:01] <Strangerke> Blue Ice is eriktorbjorn's favorite
[21:01] <syke> I remember qfG3 was made to work, what about QfG4?
[21:01] <Strangerke> nope, not yet
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[21:02] <eriktorbjorn> Strangerke: I'd rather play https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fi_WSGdWeMs because at least that one looks *gloriously* bad.
[21:02] <syke> fantastic theme song, though
[21:02] <eriktorbjorn> syke: Exactly!
[21:03] <syke> I'm going to do a cover version
[21:03] <LordHoto> Spaceship Warlock!
[21:03] <Strangerke> Arf, a myst-like. Horror.
[21:04] <syke> I really wish realMYST would come to Vita/PS3/PS4
[21:04] <syke> trying to play it on iPad without dual sticks is painful
[21:04] <syke> you guys did Myst III, right?
[21:05] <eriktorbjorn> ResidualVM supports Myst III.
[21:05] <Strangerke> no, ResidualVM added support ... a week ago, maybe less
[21:05] <syke> ohhh, my mistake
[21:06] <eriktorbjorn> syke: And speaking of over-the-top video game songs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2c4hnA8jXwo
[21:08] <Strangerke> :o
[21:09] <syke> lolz
[21:09] <syke> reminds me of a song by Sparks called "I Predict"
[21:10] <syke> anyway, Myst III was pretty great. we played it on Xbox
[21:10] <LordHoto> eriktorbjorn: ?!?
[21:11] <eriktorbjorn> LordHoto: ?
[21:11] <LordHoto> eriktorbjorn: That's just too crazy to put into words.
[21:11] <syke> it's pretty genius
[21:11] <syke> also reminds me of Lemon Demon's song "Knife Fight"
[21:13] <eriktorbjorn> Well, there's also that strange song in the Simon the Sorcerer Puzzle Pack that, if I understand it correctly, is about mad cow disease: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lBf6M3v6-g
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[21:19] <syke> what's next for residual? Myst IV?
[21:20] <Strangerke> Wintermute 3D would be cool
[21:21] <bgK> Myst IV is hardcoded, support is unlikely
[21:22] <syke> aw
[21:23] <Strangerke> hardcoded logic is fun, you should work on it
[21:23] <syke> ugh
[21:23] <syke> you misread one jz/jnz and your whole state machine is fux0red
[21:24] <syke> Lars did a great job on the SCI docs for FreeSCI's clean room re-implementation
[21:24] <syke> but when I was writing unit tests in SCI studio that validated the effects of kAnimate() on some view flags, some of the docs were very wrong
[21:24] <Strangerke> yep, that's part of the fun: you have to be precise
[21:24] <Strangerke> ;)
[21:25] <wjp> fortunately when things are wrong in a VM, there are usually many more places where you get symptoms
[21:25] <syke> when I looked at it in turbodebugger, I it took me a while to figure where he had gone wrong
[21:25] <syke> I always found it useful to do 'pair reversing' for that reason
[21:25] <syke> especially after a number of hours, my brain would just turn into cheese
[21:25] <syke> and I'd start making dumb mistakes
[21:26] <syke> I wonder if I have those SCI tests somewhere, still...
[21:26] <syke> they helped us find/fix over a dozen little bugs
[21:26] <droid2727> bgK: At least Uru Live is open sourced. Plasma for Residual! :P
[21:26] <syke> and discover even more subtle differences between SCI0 interpreter versions
[21:26] <syke> what was the hold up on QfG4, btw?
[21:27] <Strangerke> SCI32?
[21:27] <syke> oh, yea..
[21:27] <syke> QfG3 was still SCI1.1?
[21:28] <wjp> quite a bit of reversing left to do
[21:28] <wjp> yes, it was
[21:28] <syke> Phantasmagoria was SCI1.1 also, or..?
[21:29] <wjp> 2.1
[21:30] <bgK> droid2727, I'd love to see an Uru live fork supporting single player Uru, realMyst and Myst V
[21:30] <wjp> we've slowly been working on disassembling Mac Phantasmagoria (with debugging symbols!) and x86 SQ6
[21:30] <wjp> but not a lot is happening on SCI2+ at the moment
[21:30] <wjp> I keep meaning to get back to it, but...
[21:30] <syke> bgK: they used the same codebase?
[21:31] <syke> wjp: debug symbols are nice ;)
[21:31] <syke> but also Mac versions tended to use higher-level system APIs
[21:31] <bgK> syke, they're all variations upon the Plasma engine
[21:31] <syke> so it's easier to trace backward from the audio APIs, etc
[21:31] <syke> instead of a bunch of random-ass interrupts and stuff
[21:32] <wjp> the nice thing about the symbols is we don't have to start at the bottom :-)
[21:32] <wjp> the function and class names give a lot of starting points
[21:33] <syke> what are some of the main difficulties/differences with SCI2.1?
[21:33] <wjp> new graphics system is probably the main one at this point
[21:33] <syke> I thought I did see some commits relating to that, no?
[21:33] <wjp> and from a practical point of view their newer compiler that does more optimizing is annoying...
[21:34] <wjp> (all selector accesses are inlined... *shudder*)
[21:34] <wjp> yeah, but most of the current SCI2 graphics code in ScummVM consists of a lot hit-or-miss guesswork
[21:34] <wjp> s/lot/lot of/
[21:41] <fuzzie> the best kind of guesswork? :p
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[21:49] <syke> SCI2 was DOS/win-only at that point? no alternate paltforms with crappier compilers to try? ;)
[21:51] <wjp> there's that 68k phantasmagoria
[21:51] <syke> heh ;)
[21:51] <fuzzie> it is perfectly readable but not so late, right?
[21:52] <syke> well, it was r eleased on Sega Saturn(!?)
[21:52] <wjp> it should be pretty close to SQ6
[21:53] <syke> the sequel had a windows version, maybe that was a crappier compiler?
[21:53] <wjp> heh, worth a look. I don't think I really looked at any SCI3 binaries yet
[21:53] <syke> wow, the sequel sounds interesting
[21:54] <eriktorbjorn> Does anyone know if the later Sierra games were glitchy to begin with? I've been playing Gabriel Knight 2 in DOSBox lately, and sometimes the sound doesn't play in movies, which is pretty annoying, and at one point it crashed (though not repeatably).
[21:55] <syke> I never played GK
[21:55] <wjp> not sure... I've only played a few of them at the time
[21:55] <syke> but I don't recall any issues like that in SQ4, SQ5, QFG3/4, Jones CD, LSL5/6, PQ3/4
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[21:57] <syke> wow, sev
[21:57] <eriktorbjorn> syke: Gabriel Knight 2 is one of the full motion video games. Like Phantasmagoria, except it's actually not bad.
[21:57] <syke> heh
[21:57] <syke> for some reason, I had moved on after the FMV games got popular
[21:57] <syke> I liked CD-ROM games, but I think I got more into BBS door games and hacking
[21:58] <syke> and that's what was taking my computer time at that point
[21:58] <syke> hacking unsecured VMS machines and sprintnet dial-ups, etc ;)
[21:58] <syke> and playing Barren Realms Elite
[21:58] <syke> once I got on IRC in 1993, I didn't play a lot of games
[21:59] <syke> from the Phantamagoria 2 wikipedia page: "While Curtis is dating a controlling female office coworker Jocelyn, he also becomes involved with a more http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_liberation woman, Therese, who introduces him to the local http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sadomasochism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_fetishism scene. His best friend Trevor is an openly http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual man, and Curtis himself admits to his therapist he
[21:59] <syke> really progressive
[22:01] <eriktorbjorn> That's a strange game. And the first puzzle is ridiculous, not in that it's difficult but that no sane person would solve the problem that way in real life.
[22:01] <syke> a lot of games have that problem
[22:02] <syke> most of the best game designers back then did a good job almost by accident
[22:02] <syke> so it wasn't codified what was 'good' design versus 'bad'
[22:02] <syke> one of the reasons I liked QfG series so much was the multiple solutions
[22:02] <syke> I was always a wizard with some Parry and fighter points
[22:03] <wjp> builds like that would always confuse the character importer :-)
[22:03] <syke> oh?
[22:03] <syke> worked fine for me, IIRC
[22:03] <syke> qfg1 -> 2 -> 3
[22:03] <syke> never played 4 myself, only saw it briefly at a friend's house
[22:04] <syke> he LOVED QfG4, tho
[22:04] <syke> he was a big H.P> Love craft fan
[22:04] <wjp> it often got the class wrong if you had some "cross-class" skills
[22:04] <wjp> (although you could correct that manually on import)
[22:04] <eriktorbjorn> In this case, you have to find your wallet, which turns out to be under the sofa. So what would a sane person do? A) Reach under the sofa with a spatula, rolled-up newspaper, juggling club or other everyday household object, B) Move the sofa, which doesn't look very heavy, or C) Put some rat treats under the sofa to trick your pet rat into fetching the wallet for you?
[22:04] <wjp> qfg is still my favourite game series
[22:05] <wjp> even counting the unfortunate 3D of qfg5...
[22:08] <syke> never played qfg5. Lori claims it's a great game if you can work around the bugs
[22:08] <syke> btw, Saturn is a Super Hitachi RISC CPU
[22:08] <syke> if those Phantasmagoria binaries can be reversed, it might be easier to look at
[22:10] <wjp> only Eur75 on ebay... :-)
[22:10] <syke> riiiight
[22:10] <syke> can IDA understand the binary format?
[22:10] <wjp> the 68k one might be good enough
[22:11] <wjp> I've been looking at that and x86 SQ6 in tandem
[22:11] <wjp> mainly a matter of making time for it...
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[22:18] <syke> oh, neat
[22:19] <LordHoto> Good old m68k :-)
[22:19] <syke> good old crap compilers ;)
[22:20] <syke> it's when Watcom started getting popular that things get difficult on DOS games
[22:21] <syke> from a reversing perspective, that is
[22:27] <droid2727> syke: Phantasm for Saturn sadly isn't SCI
[22:31] <wjp> good night
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[22:37] <droid2727> I guess that tidbit wasn't that interesting :P
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[22:56] <Strangerke> \o/ Pathfinding in MM
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[22:57] <Strangerke> (in moonwalk, to introduce the next game I'll work on: moonwalker)
[22:57] <Strangerke> O:^)
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[22:58] <Strangerke> That killed WooShell connection :/
[22:59] <LordHoto> poor WooShell
[22:59] <Strangerke> Maybe he thought I was talking about moonwalker for DOS, which sucks
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[23:00] <LordHoto> Realistically speaking: How much better can this other Moonwalker be? :-P
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[23:02] <Strangerke> http://www.mobygames.com/game/michael-jacksons-moonwalker/screenshots
[23:02] <Strangerke> don't tell me you never played Moonwalker on an arcade machine!!1 0_o
[23:03] <Strangerke> ... oh, right, you weren't born
[23:03] <Strangerke> sorry.
[23:04] <LordHoto> Never played that arcade, nope.
[23:04] <syke> I did
[23:04] <syke> there's a place in San Francisco called Brewcade
[23:04] <LordHoto> Also, I was born before it was released :-P
[23:04] <syke> I had to explain to people that in Moonwalker, Michael Jackson is "rescuing" the children
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[23:05] <LordHoto> Brewcade? Why didn't anybody tell me about a place with that name while I was in the SF area.
[23:05] <Strangerke> syke: oh, you played the censored version?
[23:05] Action: Strangerke hides
[23:05] <syke> haha
[23:05] <syke> LordHoto: it just opened last month
[23:06] <LordHoto> I see.
[23:06] <syke> droid2727: really? someone re-implemented Phantasmagoria just for Saturn?
[23:06] <LordHoto> That might explain things, since I flew back to Germany one month ago :-P
[23:06] <droid2727> syke: Sierra passed it off to another company
[23:07] <droid2727> Video is all run-of-the-mill Radius FILM files
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[23:10] Action: eriktorbjorn had forgotten how much like a hidden object game Gabriel Knight 2 is at times.
[23:12] <droid2727> syke: However, I have yet to find RAMA PSX
[23:15] <droid2727> http://cdn4.spong.com/pack/r/a/rama7279/_-Rama-PlayStation-_.jpg
[23:19] <Strangerke> don't forget the NDS version...
[23:19] <Strangerke> http://www.priceminister.com/offer/buy/109877934/johnny-bravo-date-o-rama-jeu-nintendo-ds.html
[23:19] <Strangerke> :D
[23:20] Action: droid2727 slaps Strangerke
[23:20] <Strangerke> and megadrive!
[23:20] <Strangerke> http://www.priceminister.com/offer/buy/6647057/Normy-s-Beach-Babe-O-Rama-Jeu-Sega-Megadrive-1-Et-2.html
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[23:24] <eriktorbjorn> Strangerke: I played Moon Lander (or maybe it was called Lunar Lander), and I did at least see Moon Patrol, but not Moonwalker.
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[23:27] <syke> LordHoto: where were you working? how long were you her?
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[23:30] <syke> I know a few scummvm people got sucked up by Google over the years ;)
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[23:31] <syke> Strangerke: I remember when I first played Countdown and heard the audio coming out of my PC speaker
[23:31] <syke> it was just jaw-dropping
[23:31] <Strangerke> it was less jaw-dropping for me, because Mortevielle Manor did it 1.5 years before
[23:31] <syke> the only game previously I played that had speech on PC Speaker was Ghostbusters II
[23:32] <Strangerke> with speech generated on the fly based on phonem analysis of the text
[23:32] <Strangerke> hi dreammaster :)
[23:32] <syke> wow, that's cool
[23:32] <LordHoto> syke: Only for three months (Sep to Dec), did an internship at FB.
[23:32] <syke> reach out to me next time! :)
[23:32] <syke> FB has a great campus
[23:33] <LordHoto> They do, haha.
[23:33] <syke> I went there last year for a ReactJS meet-up
[23:33] <LordHoto> Strangerke enjoyed some burger there. :-P
[23:33] <Strangerke> Yes.
[23:33] <Strangerke> Avocado burgers are the best thing invented on earth ever
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[23:36] <Strangerke> LordHoto: you should work at FB, btw. Did I already mention it? :P
[23:37] <LordHoto> I think you did that countless times when we were walking across the campus.
[23:37] <LordHoto> :-P
[23:37] <Strangerke> and daily since then? :D
[23:38] <LordHoto> I don't think that often.
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[23:55] <syke> Strangerke: are you still there?
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[23:57] <Strangerke> yes
[00:00] --- Wed Jan 7 2015